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Joined: Jan 2007
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If their standards were enforced

Look at New Jersey, I have gone to 3 different township building departments for new construction cable jobs during Febuary.

Every one has a different set of ideas as to what needs to take place, one town says we need a copy of your low voltage licence another town says we don't

(the NJ low voltage certificate requires No test or display of competence, just a check, your local dunkin donuts could get one)

Then in my experience when the inspector comes out he is only interested in the electrical & could care less about Cat5 wiring......

Bicsi would be wonderful if it had some sway with these township building departments.........

at the end of the day these permits are just about revenue & keeping some local government idiots in a job............

when ever I walk in to the building department and say that I need a permit for voice & data wiring, it takes about 15 minutes for the penny to drop with the people who work there, it would be like going into McDonalds & asking for a Big Mac only for the person serving to say "whats a Big Mac"


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Quote
Originally posted by Avalon:
It normally works out that way, why oh why do American's value qualifications over real world experience???????
What you really want is someone with real world experience AND the qualifications (certifications).

To see why BICSI can be a valuable resource just take a look through the cabling forum on this site. You'll see tons of questions asked by professionals whom either don't know the correct methods, or just aren't sure. Heck, most techs don't even have a clue about what the NEC says about communications wiring.

Other examples of why more people should look into BICSI can be found whenever you walk into a national chain store. Just look around at the way other "techs" do cabling. eek

BICSI is not perfect and I don't always agree with them. However, they will give you a good fundamental understanding of how things should be done. You'll have the reference materials and the knowledge too back up when you butt heads with a GC, architect or engineer. And, if you do it the BICSI way, you'll surely meet (or exceed) all NEC requirements! aok

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Sorry, Larry.........you are the exception that proves the rules.

And, yes, to agree with the stupidity of some of the BICSI is outrageous...they have overseas influences...who needs a metric rack? Or 568A wiring? Only those manufacturers that make two pair required phone systems, CGs, and installers who are NOT located in the US. By their very name they claim to be international....and we have all seen pictures of even the PSTN from "over there".

IF (and that is a big IF) BISCI ever gets it's act together, the first thing it needs to do is abandon a lot of the old Bell System cabling requirements from back East. SWBT did things a lot better....of course, I was trained by SWBT. But this discussion could go on for ever.

And, yes, I have BICSI training, it is the base for IBEW LV training in most locals, and it is strictly a political football in most locations.

My $1-2.98.


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Isn't 568A specified now for residential? Larry is right about the documentation. It's always there if you need it. Standards and criminal laws are similar - you don't need new laws if the old ones are not enforced.

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I just have a problem with all of the Johnny-Come-Lately certification programs written mostly by Manufacturers that are becoming a large part of the industry.

In my opinion the programs are nothing more than the brain child of manufacturers that have devised a method of getting money by selling hyped up bs.

Don't read me wrong, I'm all for doing the job professionally and I have nothing against learning the proper way to install new technology as it evolves. But I just don't think that's what these programs are all about.

From what I've seen they are about selling a customer a 30 year warranty for a network cabling job knowing fully well the cables and equipment we install today will be outdated in a few years or less by industry standards. And they are the one's that set industry standards.

And these people are very good at writing job spec's (and out of the goodness of their hearts they will provide them to the customer free of charge) that eliminate anyone that refuses to succumb to what I feel is blackmail from being qualified to even bid a job.

That's my $5 bucks worth.

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Bobby, as we are now required to be p.c....I'll say you meant to say in Texican....."El toro poo poo"....right? :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


Residential??? What is that?

Anyway, we have all turned this thread into a BICSI bash, so, back on topic......is 568A really required for resi? Why not just use CAT 3 and do it correctly?

:shrug:

Oh, no, the topic was really winning the trophy at the Star Trek convention? Oh, what the heck, go for it................

laugh


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Ka Plah!

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Quote
Originally posted by KLD:
By their very name they claim to be international....and we have all seen pictures of even the PSTN from "over there".
Hmmmm...Don't think you can blame that on BICSI.

My point is that techs need training. If you don't work for a telco, or have union support, BICSI is the way to go.

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My only problem with BICSI is not the standard, heck they copied most of it from the ANSI standards we used for years. My problem is being a very small business I can't afford to go take their class. I can't go several hundred miles and pay the expenses it would take for something that means nothing to most my customers to begin with.

When I first started this busines I called to see if I could just take the test and not the course, the answer was no, I had to take their course to become certified. Guess over 30 years in telecommunications doesn't mean much. I never checked further, but it sure soured me on them.


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Justbill - you are right about that - it is expensive! You could probably teach some of their courses after 30 years in the biz. The CECs are what kills you - the more certs you get, the more CECs you need to keep them.

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