atcomsystems.ca/forum Forums Wiring - Telecom Carriers - Trunks & Services Cabling Telephones Systems Wiring cat 3 or cat 6

VoIP needs data cables which should be Cat 5 or 6

That's not exactly true. The IPO, which I am somewhat familiar with, can use CAT3 as a minimum requirement. However the topology is the same as for data, with 4 pairs end to end and 8P/8C jacks and a patch panel. So you might as well run whatever you are using for data because it makes no sense to mess with two different cable types.

-Hal

Thanks for all the comments. I will pull the cat 6 and get someone that is skilled at it to terminate. I have plenty for my short runs, it amazes me when I see how much is wasted on some jobs.

My favorite comment is from Fletcher-


'...it's not cat6, it's cat-nothing.' : )

Thanks 7echo - I wish I could claim the phrase, but it's not mine. And I do agree with Silversam and Skip about using what you've got, especially on a small scale.

BTW, welcome to the forum.

Jack

Everyone here can argue about the merits of cat6 vs. cat3 all day long but if it the cat6 is free then use it. No reason to spend money when you have free cable to use.

Just felt like adding a few more cents. Cat3 and cat5 are not recognized cabling types by the TIA/EIA for those on here who want to things "by the book". Cat5e and up is the minimum recommended cable type. Second the main reason for using cat5e and up at each location is for flexibility and not because of some mysterious property that cat6 possesses over cat3. Its obviously a lot simpler to replace a jack than to replace a cable run if you needed to convert a voice cable to data.

First, when I say CAT5 I am refering to all the other iterations for data such as 5e, 6, 6e, 7, ad nausium. I'm tired of spelling them out.

Second, it's simpler to only replace a jack ASSUMING that the other end of the cable terminates on a patch panel with the data patch panel. If I have anything to do with an installation the phone system won't even be in the same room and the voice cable runs will be punched down on 66 blocks. So does the EIA/TIA also specify where I locate my system and how I terminate my cables?

That's why that's not the "book" I'm interested in reading.

-Hal

Actually yes there are guidelines and best practices for ER and TR design. I also misspoke and its just CAT5 that’s no longer recognized and not CAT3 in 568-C. I’m curious as to why people in the industry would recommend installing cable that does not even meet established standards and recommendations for commercial and residential installations. How can we criticize sparky and anybody else who decides to string a cable from point A to point B when we can’t even agree amongst ourselves on how to do things? Yes we all know CAT3 will handle voice just fine but that’s not the point here. What standard are we to be held to? Some of us follow TIA/EIA standards and then some of us decide their way is better so screw the standards. There are documents and guidelines put together by TIA/EIA and BICSI that are widely recognized as the “way” of doing things and whether you agree with it or not those are the rules. A person can go off and do their own thing but doesn’t that make them the same as the CG, Sparky, novice, idiot, or whatever else you want to call them?

Doesn't the TIA/EIA standard say that only one of the cables in a work area outlet need to be cat5e or better? I think that the standard allows cat3 as long as there is also higher grade cables for data. However, I could very easily be wrong.

The system that I manage employs multiple cat6 runs for data and a cat3 run for voice in each outlet box. I have always believed that this is allowable under the TIA/EIA 568 standard. Please correct me if I am wrong. Still, why adhere to a TIA/EIA standard and ignore years of telecom experience? The standard is only a recommendation.

-Nelson

We have bounced this issue back and forth for years. Both sides have valid points, however it is important to note that TIA/EIA standards are not requirements. In a perfect world, these standards would be enforced by local code enforcement personnel (AHJ), similar to the National Electrical Code. That is just it; these standards are not enforced and therefore shouldn't be expected to be the "norm". At present, these standards are nothing more than recommended guidelines.

With this being said, there is nothing wrong with running CAT1 or CAT6 for voice. For those who are newer to this industry, they may not know of any other wiring material below CAT5. For those who have been in the industry for years or even decades, they know what works.

Just like painting a house, there is a perceived right way and wrong way to do it. For the time being, either way is correct.

I’m curious as to why people in the industry would recommend installing cable that does not even meet established standards and recommendations for commercial and residential installations. How can we criticize sparky and anybody else who decides to string a cable from point A to point B when we can’t even agree amongst ourselves on how to do things?

There is a big difference between an industry that has established practices and someone with little or no knowledge doing their own thing.

TIA/EIA and BICSI are held in high regard by CGs and IT "professionals" because it is the written word balanced against their zero experience. It's like learning from a text book in school (which is what they are used to) with that being their only exposure to the subject. There is your main proponent to these "standards".

I doubt that a sparkie will even know what TIA/EIA and BICSI are so you can count them out right there.

Further, TIA/EIA and BICSI are only recommendations, and they are full of inconsistancies and ridiculous requirements at that. If you have been in the telecom industry from before TIA/EIA and BICSI, you know who it was written for and by whom. You will also be capable of making judgement calls as to what part of those recommendations are legitimate.

The CAT3 vs CAT5 debate is over one of those judgement calls. It really boils down to interchangeability and my objection is that as I said above. We don't run voice wiring like we do data. If you are terminating your voice wiring on 66 blocks it will never be used for data. CAT5 is difficult to terminate on 66 block clips. CAT5 is not needed for voice. CAT3 plenum is much cheaper than plenum CAT5. NONE of this is taken into account by TIA/EIA and BICSI.

-Hal