web statisticsweb stats Business Phone Systems Tech Talk Forum - VOIP & Cloud Phone Help

Business Phone Systems

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 7
mope Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 7
Have a working 1a2 system and have recently noticed my cards say "Brand Rex LC-400E Music on hold"

I really want to get the moh feature working. Where the heck do i connect my music source? I installed this system so I have a little knowledge about it. I am by no means a pro like some of you though. The only info I found on my ksu was "55IC*KSU" I currently use 3 lines, The ksu has 4 cards in it only 3 of them are the Brand Rex Music ones.

Any info or help would be great.

Thanks

Mope

Atcom VoIP Phones
VoIP Demo

Best VoIP Phones Canada


Visit Atcom to get started with your new business VoIP phone system ASAP
Turn up is quick, painless, and can often be done same day.
Let us show you how to do VoIP right, resulting in crystal clear call quality and easy-to-use features that make everyone happy!
Proudly serving Canada from coast to coast.

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 15,378
Likes: 13
Moderator-Vertical, Vodavi, 1A2, Outside Wire
*****
Offline
Moderator-Vertical, Vodavi, 1A2, Outside Wire
*****
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 15,378
Likes: 13
With the LC400E, only one line card in the system can have music on hold. If you connect the same music source to more than one card, callers will be able to talk to each other while on hold, something I am sure that you DON'T want. In order to isolate them, you'll need an ITT K403 MOH card in a separate mounting, which is all but impossible to locate anymore.

If you only need MOH on one card, you'll need to connect the music source to pins 3 and 18 of the card slot itself. This means that you'll need to unwrap the existing wires on the pins, then insulate and store them. Connect your music source to these same pins and you'll be all set. Be sure to keep the volume low at first because if it's set too high, you will blow out the input transformer on the LC400E card.


Ed Vaughn, MBSWWYPBX
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 812
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 812
Ed , wow that's good.

I can't remember but at one time about 12+ years ago a company came out with a 400 type card that had volume control for music on the front of the card. It also had speed dial chip and exclusion privacy...

What the heck was it's name? They advertised in the gear along time ago.

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 7
mope Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 7
Would I be able to wire 3 audio sources (one to each card) and avoid customers talking to each other on hold? A few cheap fm radios wouldnt bother me.

Could you go into a little more detail on the pin 3 and 18? Should I wire into the back of the slot? or if i wanted it to look like crap can I just stuff the wire in the proper position in the slot when I put the card in?

Love the help thanks guys!

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 15,378
Likes: 13
Moderator-Vertical, Vodavi, 1A2, Outside Wire
*****
Offline
Moderator-Vertical, Vodavi, 1A2, Outside Wire
*****
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 15,378
Likes: 13
Absoulutely! That would be the easiest (and certainly cheapest) way to go. Just be careful with the wires coming from pins 3 and 18. Make sure that they are insulated and stored away and you will be just fine.

With the 551C, you can take the black plastic back cover off and gain full access to the wire wrap pins of all card slots. You can route the MOH cables up into the backplane area by snipping a small notch in the gray plastic housing and nobody will see a thing.

Please don't try to mash wires into the actual slot pins. If you do, you will run the risk of introducing 24 volts DC into your radio's output. Doing so will surely fry it. Earlier 551 units had all four slots wired with 24VDC on pins 3/18 of every slot, but on the "C" units, only slot four had this. Better to play it safe.


Ed Vaughn, MBSWWYPBX
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 812
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 812
As Ed said, pins 3 and 18 would be on the back door of the 551 shoebox. The wire wrap. Pin 3 would be a A- lead but then you have to watch out for commons to get to pin 18. Remember that the first card is common in the KTU and to the set.

I could email you a diagram but still it might be trial or error. It doesn't' always work bases on the model and type.

It's a screwball approach for music on hold with a 551. though it can be done with persistence.

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 7
mope Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 7
thanks for the advice guys, i will pull my box off the wall this weekend and give it a try...if i get time.
I'm sort of suprised that they marked these cards as "music on hold" when it takes a bit of modification to use it.


thanks
mope

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 15,378
Likes: 13
Moderator-Vertical, Vodavi, 1A2, Outside Wire
*****
Offline
Moderator-Vertical, Vodavi, 1A2, Outside Wire
*****
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 15,378
Likes: 13
San/Bar made a MOH line card that did not require any external hardware. Their cards had built-in isolation transformers. Those are pretty rare these days though.


Ed Vaughn, MBSWWYPBX
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 812
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 812
Ed, for this person to make the music on hold work he will have to start by skipping the conventional wiring after the first line.

Remember, We used to skip pairs after the 5th line to wire a up a 10 button?

He has to take this same approach and Have some type of audible isolation for each line that was part of the hold ctkt.

Some type of choke variable resistor Ic latch would be needed.

One could play around with some voltage Ic relays that Mike sandman sells. I have used them and they work.

It's like an old Lionel train set as a hobby. I should have known that 1a2 would have come to this.

Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 9,423
Likes: 1
Member
*****
Offline
Member
*****
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 9,423
Likes: 1
Couldn't he use some kind of isolation transformer for the music input? We frequently have to change mic level to line level signals or vice-versa...


Jeff Moss

Moss Communications
Computer Repair-Networking-Cabling
MBSWWYPBX, JGAE
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 812
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 812
Hi Jeff,

I think that was what I said. With 1a2 it's a bit more tricky because you are dealing with a robust power supply that runs talk battery, ringing voltage and lamp battery. These are all rated at a 1/2 amp or more. So now your music source has to compete with this. I'm sure at best crosstalk music would prevail for the novice.


It's something to study. Something to learn. The most important factor of 1a2 for the non electrician is that it can tech you More than any electrician ever thought of learning.
Keep in mind it's not much more complicated than a old train set.

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 15,378
Likes: 13
Moderator-Vertical, Vodavi, 1A2, Outside Wire
*****
Offline
Moderator-Vertical, Vodavi, 1A2, Outside Wire
*****
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 15,378
Likes: 13
Jeff, the 403A card is a bank of seven 600 ohm 1:1 isolation transformers. These are needed for all MOH line cards' input isolation EXCEPT for the San/Bar cards. They had their own isolated input, so the same music source could be parallel-connected to all line card slots on pins 3 and 18.


Ed Vaughn, MBSWWYPBX
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 812
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 812

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 812
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 812
Ed, your reading from specs. He won't find the card.
Or even make it work without alot of trouble. A real lot of trouble. If they make it work without the card now they hear music on the other lines.

Now they have to isolate this. All I can say as a hint. triple up on your lcc 120's and add a diode and varistor and play the music on hold game.

One needs build or inject a music source to the inturuptur ckt. This is how it will work

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 7
mope Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 7
from fear of knocking out my companys only phone system I decided to go on a quest for the San Bar 4201a's.

I got two of them in today. Assuming they were pretty much "plug and play" I plugged one in my second line slot. Well I guess they are not as plug and play as i suspected. It got extreamly hot and a little stinky.

Do I still need to be disconnecting the wires at pin 3 and 18?? At what point of the source of the wires should be diconnected? Behind each slot, or at a different point? I am thinking behind my 66 block because the 3 and 18 then become my output lines right?

I guess I am much more a novice then I thought. Any help would be great. Thanks for putting up with me. Hopefully I can still get to use the second card I bought without frying that one too.

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 15,378
Likes: 13
Moderator-Vertical, Vodavi, 1A2, Outside Wire
*****
Offline
Moderator-Vertical, Vodavi, 1A2, Outside Wire
*****
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 15,378
Likes: 13
Yes, you always have to send your music in on pins and 3/18. You might get lucky and have a revision of 551 that has all four line card slots wired for A battery on pins 3/18. If so, you can just disconnect the wires from AG and AB (Talk battery) a the power supply and send your music in on those wires.

You may find that each slot's pins 3/18 show up on the 66 block independently on the right side. Open up the back cover and trace the wires out. If they are on the block, then you are in good shape. Just pull off any jumpers that are on those pins of the block and loop your music wiring to the pair feeding each slot.


Ed Vaughn, MBSWWYPBX
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 7
mope Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 7
well I feel like a dope...as usuall.

I had some time this weekend so I thougt I would try my music on hold again...so I got out my multimeter and found what I assume was my "talk battery," I disconnected the power at the rear of my ksu where it says "GA and BA" so thats all fine now, when I plug in my sanbar it doesnt melt quite like the first one did. I can get audio but now where do I put it?

I thought at first that the sanbar cards were replacement cards but after taking a second to look at them they are only a music source. My stupidity, but no big deal. I have 4 slots for cards and utilize 3 lines. So I thought that the audio out from the san bar card in the fourth slot would go out on 3 and 18 to the other cards. Is this not right? Im sure there is more to it than that.

The 3 and 18 pin on all 4 slots are connected together. I still do not hear anything on hold though? At this point I am not worried about people on hold talking to each other, but where did I go wrong? Do I need to take my output from 3 and 18 now and stick it somewhere else?

Does anyone have a list or scematic showing what the abbreviations used on the 66 block mean? I think knowing what each is would help me a bit as well.

I'm sure my lack of experience is adding to my problems, you guys are so knowledgable about this stuff and I know someone knows what I am missing.

Thanks guys! I can take pictures or make diagrams or whatever info might help figure out what I am doing.

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 15,378
Likes: 13
Moderator-Vertical, Vodavi, 1A2, Outside Wire
*****
Offline
Moderator-Vertical, Vodavi, 1A2, Outside Wire
*****
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 15,378
Likes: 13
You are pretty much on the money. Pins 3 and 18 of all card slots should be connected together and to nothing else. You may not have your option jumpers on the MOH card(s) set to allow music on hold. They were shipped from the factory with music on hold option disabled to keep people from accidentally frying them by plugging them into a slot with 24 volts on those pins.

These option plugs should be fairly easy to find without a schematic. Just trace pins 3 & 18 on the card to the first place they go which will be two option plugs. Just move those to their opposite positions and you should be all set.

Just remember that you will get crosstalk between parties on hold if you use the Brand-Rex LC400E cards.


Ed Vaughn, MBSWWYPBX
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 5,058
Likes: 5
Moderator-1A2, Cabling
*****
Offline
Moderator-1A2, Cabling
*****
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 5,058
Likes: 5
On a Brand Rex LC 400E (issue 13) to allow MOH Move J3 to 20-21 and J4 to 17-18.

Sam


"Where are we going and why are we in this hand basket?"
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 7
mope Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 7
Thanks guys! My music on hold finally works! I decided to just have the music available on the first line for now untill I figure how I should rig up the other lines.

Hey Sam, do you know what other jumper settings there are? I was just wondering if there were any other fun options or things these cards might be capable of doing.

Thanks so much to you guys for your help in my little project!

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 5,058
Likes: 5
Moderator-1A2, Cabling
*****
Offline
Moderator-1A2, Cabling
*****
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 5,058
Likes: 5
Mope -

Not much other exciting stuff.

The three usual ones:

Abandoned Incoming Call Timeout: 4, 6, 12 seconds
(J1: 1-3, 1-2, 1,2,3 vacant)

Incoming Call Signal: Interrupted, Steady, Common Control
(J1: 5-8, 6-8, 4-8)

Hold Lamp: Steady, Wink (J1: 7-9, 7-10)

Then there's:

Release Timing: 100ms, 750 ms (J2: 12-13, 11-12)

MOH (You have already)

The following option is available on issue 1~5 only. Issue 6 and beyond offer only bridged ringing

Incoming Ring Detect: Bridged, Direct, Ring Lead
(J4: 14-15, 18-19, 15-18)


Sam


"Where are we going and why are we in this hand basket?"
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 741
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 741
I have an extra K403 if you're interested. PM if so -

Thx
Matt

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 7
mope Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 7
Thanks, I just got a 642a aux panel on ebay, im gunna try and just use the slots to install my other MOH cards. I should be able to do that without breaking too many things. If it doesnt work out I'll let you know!

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 15,378
Likes: 13
Moderator-Vertical, Vodavi, 1A2, Outside Wire
*****
Offline
Moderator-Vertical, Vodavi, 1A2, Outside Wire
*****
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 15,378
Likes: 13
You won't get into too much trouble with the 642 panel since it is a multi-purpose utility panel where all slot pins are just brought out to the 66 clips. There's really no factory wiring between the slots like in a KSU. Do you have a 79B5 power supply for it?


Ed Vaughn, MBSWWYPBX
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 5
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 5
Thanks to Mope and his question about MOH on 1A2 key.
I cut my teeth on 1A2 back in the 90s, but have not worked on one for a long time. A good friend whom got me started in 1A2 passed away last month, and before he passed away he told me to take care of some of his customers. I had no idea that pin 3 and 18 had the voltage and would give me problems like Mope had.
The answers you guys gave back to Mope were professional, and with respect. I don't care how much or little we know, it seems that we all learn something on every job we are on.
I would like to say Thank You from me to the answers you gave to Mope on his MOH problem. This little tid bit of shop talk probably saved me a great deal of headache in the future.

Dennis in NE Ohio


Denny
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 5,058
Likes: 5
Moderator-1A2, Cabling
*****
Offline
Moderator-1A2, Cabling
*****
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 5,058
Likes: 5
Glad we were able to help. Even 8 years later!

Sam


"Where are we going and why are we in this hand basket?"
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 15,378
Likes: 13
Moderator-Vertical, Vodavi, 1A2, Outside Wire
*****
Offline
Moderator-Vertical, Vodavi, 1A2, Outside Wire
*****
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 15,378
Likes: 13
Thanks, Denny. Can you tell that we love this stuff? Come on back if you need help with anything else. You'll be amazed at the pool of knowledge that exists here.

I even learn something new fairly regularly when reviewing posts and I've been doing this stuff for most of my life.


Ed Vaughn, MBSWWYPBX
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3

Moderated by  ChrisRR, EV607797, Silversam 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Forum Statistics
Forums84
Topics94,262
Posts638,697
Members49,757
Most Online5,661
May 23rd, 2018
Popular Topics(Views)
211,100 Shoretel
187,712 CTX100 install
186,800 1a2 system
Newest Members
BPopilek, Rich F, LewisR, TDKs79, Buttinset
49,757 Registered Users
Top Posters(30 Days)
dexman 18
Toner 11
TDKs79 8
teleco 4
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 140 guests, and 24 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Contact Us | Sponsored by Atcom: One of the best VoIP Phone Canada Suppliers for your business telephone system!| Terms of Service

Sundance Communications is not affiliated with any of the above manufacturers. Sundance Phone System Forums - VOIP & Cloud Phone Help
©Copyright Sundance Communications 1998-2024
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5