web statisticsweb stats Business Phone Systems Tech Talk Forum - VOIP & Cloud Phone Help

Business Phone Systems

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 7
Member
OP Offline
Member
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 7
I Have been getting into phones for a long time and now I have desided to get into the wonderful world of Key system, and what put me over the edge was my fathers boss who has been in the phone business for over 30 years, and still has customers that still have 501 KSU's running! so what Im wondering is, What is a good price for a 551c either with cards or not. I have a few things im following on ebay, here is a few that I think I can work with,
www.ebay.com/itm/182344158311?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
www.ebay.com/itm/262748791577?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
If you guy's are willing to sell me one for a good price i'm more than happy to buy it.

Last edited by PINKBOY1006; 12/05/16 02:03 PM.
Atcom VoIP Phones
VoIP Demo

Best VoIP Phones Canada


Visit Atcom to get started with your new business VoIP phone system ASAP
Turn up is quick, painless, and can often be done same day.
Let us show you how to do VoIP right, resulting in crystal clear call quality and easy-to-use features that make everyone happy!
Proudly serving Canada from coast to coast.

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 15,378
Likes: 13
Moderator-Vertical, Vodavi, 1A2, Outside Wire
*****
Offline
Moderator-Vertical, Vodavi, 1A2, Outside Wire
*****
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 15,378
Likes: 13
30 years on a 501 is nothing. Those things last forever. I found one in a building that was abandoned in 1971 and the interrupter was still running. If you really want to learn about 1A2, the 501 by any manufacturer is your best bet. The reason is that you can see and trace all of the factory wiring, whereas with the 551C, all of the wiring is hidden in the back.

Besides, 501s are much more plentiful in the secondary/used market since they were used by all telcos, where the 551C was only used by Bell companies, which limits your access to availability.

You should be able to name your price on this equipment nowadays, but I wouldn't spend more than $75.00 on a 551 of any vintage.


Ed Vaughn, MBSWWYPBX
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 5,058
Likes: 5
Moderator-1A2, Cabling
*****
Offline
Moderator-1A2, Cabling
*****
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 5,058
Likes: 5
I'm with Ed. 501s are better - much better, if a little larger. Do NOT get an ITT 601 they had, as I recall an Electronic interruptor that lasted no more then 6 months.

However 501s from, ITT, WECO, S-C, AE, were all good - and practically interchangeable.

$75.00 (plus shipping) is probably top end for a 551, though you might need a ringing generator on top of that.


Sam


"Where are we going and why are we in this hand basket?"
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 657
Moderator-1A2
***
Offline
Moderator-1A2
***
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 657
Originally Posted by EV607797
You should be able to name your price on this equipment nowadays, but I wouldn't spend more than $75.00 on a 551 of any vintage.

You would think... Has anyone else looked on eBay lately for 1A2 stuff? I can't believe what some of that stuff is going for. It almost seems like all the cheap stuff that people just wanted to get rid of is all gone and now the demand is up a little so people think they can get a mint for this 40+ year old crap.

Don't get me wrong, I love my 1A2 system, even if I'm the only idiot that actually uses it, But there is no way I would pay $70 and up for a six button set. If it was a N.O.S. pink 2565, ok, that might be different. But for an ash or ivory set with a zillion miles on it... come on. Same deal with the line cards. You used to be able to get line cards for a dollar or two apiece and cheap shipping. Now the idiots are asking 15-25 bucks for an old 400 card. Give me a break. Most of them are below issue 15, so they won't even work for most people. There's a way to modify them so they will, but I have to get permission to share that secret.

I noticed my key system stopped ringing up on my copper POTS line the other day. Times they are-a-changing. Fairpoint was still using grounded ringing and the pre-issue 15 cards worked just fine. Not anymore. Once I stuck a 15 in there it would ring up just fine. Checked all my grounds and they all seem to be solid. Figured this might be relevant to anyone getting into this.

I have a couple 620 panels I'll never use, but the shipping on them with the power supply would be obnoxious. The power supply has the interrupter so you need it to make them work. I also have a couple of the intercom panels that go with the 620 panels, I don't remember the numbers, but they have all the cards and they work. They even have the touch tone decoders and they are still tuned right. If someone wanted them, they can have them, but I'm not going to the trouble to ship them. It would cost more than they're worth to ship them, and I don't have the time to box them up and take them to the post office.

Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 7
Member
OP Offline
Member
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 7
My fathers business have no use for 501 parts, I've already found a power supply and all of the manuals for one but can not seem to find a ksu in storage. So I might have to look else where, so what would be a good place to start looking for a 501 ksu?

Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 657
Moderator-1A2
***
Offline
Moderator-1A2
***
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 657
The stuff is around, you just have to have some patience. Most of my stuff came from eBay. I'm a... frugal... person when it comes to 1A2, so I'm always looking for the cheapest price on this stuff. Sometimes I have to spend some time putting it back together when it shows up, but that's part of the fun for me. I got my ITT 501 from a guy on eBay who was selling some other 1A2 parts but didn't have the KSU listed. I sent him a message through eBay's messaging thing and asked if he had a KSU or if he was just selling off some old parts he had. His response was he thought nobody would ever want that crusty old thing so he didn't bother listing it. He boxed it up, along with all the 25 pair cable he could rip out of his house, and a slew of other parts and sold it to me for the price of shipping. It needed some very minor rewiring, but was otherwise ready to go. The nice thing about the 501 -and I would think they all were like this- the power supply has the ringing generator built in. The 551 series of Western Electric KSU's are awesome little packages but they didn't come from the factory with a ringing generator. You can't use the common audible ringers without the gen. The generators are getting to be a real pain in the arse to find, and you can just about forget ever finding the bracket that mounts it. Most people just strapped the generator to the interrupter with a big zip-tie and called it a day. Even when they were still being made those brackets were tough to find.

Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 7
Member
OP Offline
Member
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 7
Originally Posted by ChrisRR
The stuff is around, you just have to have some patience. Most of my stuff came from eBay. I'm a... frugal... person when it comes to 1A2, so I'm always looking for the cheapest price on this stuff.


Trust me I have patience and I am most certainly frugal. I collect apple ii computer stuff and I have been known to sit with a search for months at a time just to find a certain part or a good price, I just wanted to know if anyone had one to sell or give for a good price. I am about to set a search for "501 KSU".

Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 657
Moderator-1A2
***
Offline
Moderator-1A2
***
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 657
A man after my own heart.

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,290
Member
*****
Offline
Member
*****
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,290
PinkBoy: Call me 631-749-0100. 6 pm to 10 pm, Eastern. I have a few 501's for sale.


Arthur P. Bloom
"30 years of faithful service...15 years on hold"

Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 657
Moderator-1A2
***
Offline
Moderator-1A2
***
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 657
Arthur to the rescue! Didn't you have a 501 in Lancaster that you couldn't GIVE away? I believe it had a very special tag on the cord that was probably worth more than the KSU.

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,290
Member
*****
Offline
Member
*****
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,290
It was sort of a joke. The tag was rare, but the buyer really wanted the 501, so I "sold" him the tag, with a "free" KSU attached.


Arthur P. Bloom
"30 years of faithful service...15 years on hold"

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 581
Likes: 6
Member
****
Offline
Member
****
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 581
Likes: 6
I am planning on liquidating most of my 1A2 equipment before I move at the beginning of next year if anyone is interested.

scott_bonk(at)premiertelecom(dot)us.


Tennessee Technology Solutions, LLC | "Business technology solutions reimagined." | (423) 665-9995 | www.423tech.com
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 5,058
Likes: 5
Moderator-1A2, Cabling
*****
Offline
Moderator-1A2, Cabling
*****
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 5,058
Likes: 5
Scott - When you're ready, post a list of what you have for sale. You might get a few bites.


Sam


"Where are we going and why are we in this hand basket?"
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 581
Likes: 6
Member
****
Offline
Member
****
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 581
Likes: 6
I definitely will, thanks Sam! smile hope you are doing well.


Tennessee Technology Solutions, LLC | "Business technology solutions reimagined." | (423) 665-9995 | www.423tech.com
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 5,058
Likes: 5
Moderator-1A2, Cabling
*****
Offline
Moderator-1A2, Cabling
*****
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 5,058
Likes: 5
Thanks, Scott. Better then I was.

Sam


"Where are we going and why are we in this hand basket?"
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 7
Member
OP Offline
Member
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 7
So I have an interesting problem with a 400d card from 66', the card will not hold, not even when I hold the relay in to make it hold. I have moved it to a couple different slot and all have lines on them, my other card from 69' works fine after lubing the relays, they are both iss 8. anyone And I ordered 3 more cards on ebay and hopfully all of them are iss 15 ( I asked for them since he had some in the pics), so when they come in ill see if they work fully too.

Last edited by PINKBOY1006; 12/22/16 07:34 PM.
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 657
Moderator-1A2
***
Offline
Moderator-1A2
***
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 657
It's not worth the effort to try to fix line cards... usually. If a line won't go on hold, make sure your A-leads are connected properly and you have a line light when you go off hook on that line. From the sounds of it, you've done this already and have tracked the problem to the card itself. It is more than one relay that makes it put the line on hold, I believe. The other relay that could be faulty is the L relay which is in the metal can. You can't open it, nor should you. That's where the green goop lives. If the problem is indeed the line card, the thing to do is just replace it.

Be wary of the the ebay seller, Cliff. I've bought line cards from him and also asked specifically for Issue 15. My request went completely ignored and I got everything but a 15. He's on the up and up, otherwise. Always ships pretty quick, and usually has some good deals on old 1A2 gear. He probably sold out of Issue 15's ages ago. I only have 5 Issue 15's and they're in use, or I'd offer them to you.

There is a really simple modification to make any other issue of 400D into a 15. It only works with other 400 "D", none of the other letters. But 400D's are a dime a dozen. I got a schematic from another member on how to make the modification, and it involves desoldering one end of one component and adding a single resistor. It takes literally 2 minutes to do and it is completely reversible should you want to. I have to ask if I can share that. I'll let you know.

Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 657
Moderator-1A2
***
Offline
Moderator-1A2
***
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 657
Putting a call on hold is a very specific, carefully timed sequence of events that must happen in the right order or it doesn't work.

When you push in the hold button the A-leads go open circuit. (No connection). The line key remains depressed and tip and ring are still connected to the network in the phone.

As you release the hold button, the a-leads remain open and the line key pops up breaking tip and ring.

It must happen in this order. A-leads break - then - tip and ring break. If there's a problem with continuity on the A-leads it will not go on hold. Usually, an open a lead will manifest itself as a line key that won't light up when you are using that line on that phone.

The other common hold problem is called false hold. This is where the line puts itself on hold when you go to hang up the phone. This is caused -usually- by the hookswitch being out of whack or being wired wrong.

To properly hang up a line the sequence is reversed; Tip and ring MUST open first, followed by the A-leads. If the switchhook pileup gets bent or damaged this can happen. The other problem is when some "handyman" tries to rewire one of these phones. There are three sets of contacts in a hook switch pileup. One is for the A-leads, and one is for either tip or ring- I don't remember which. When you go off hook, the A-leads make first, then the voice circuit (tip or ring) makes. When you hang up, its the opposite. Tip (or ring) opens FIRST, then the A-leads.

It's one of those things you don't think you need to learn, until you encounter a hold problem, especially a false hold, and you tear your hair out trying to fix it. Been there, done this, have the T-shirt.

Hope this was helpful.

Chris

Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 657
Moderator-1A2
***
Offline
Moderator-1A2
***
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 657
Also remember, you have an A-lead for each line, but only one A1 lead. A1 is just a ground, and each line's A-lead is just looking for a ground to close a relay. If you have the ORG/WHT pair reversed, only line one will go on hold.

Do you have a wiring diagram for a typical 6 button set? Don't try to wing it if you don't. I could almost recite it from memory and plenty of guys here can recite the wiring for a 30 button call director from memory. Just ask if you aren't sure. smile

Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 7
Member
OP Offline
Member
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 7
Yes I do have the schematic for the set, and about the 400D mod, ill take you up on the offer, I have a suspicion on what to do for it, ill see if i can figure out. and on the front of the open a1 and 1a leads that was one of the first things I checked. And yes the guy i ended up getting the cards from is cliff. 6 button set pdf

Last edited by PINKBOY1006; 12/22/16 09:48 PM.
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 657
Moderator-1A2
***
Offline
Moderator-1A2
***
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 657
Another really good line card is the ITT 400E. I have a number of them and they work very well. Some of the later 400 cards from Western Electric, most notably the 400H, are complete crap. As I recall, the 400G's were ok, but the H cards were just sucky. I have a couple I bought years ago, not knowing and I tore them out 10 minutes after I put them in. I like the ITT 400E cards. They have jumpers to configure the kind of ringing, and have provisions for music on hold. We could start another complete thread about MOH, but suffice it to say, do not connect a music source to more than one 400E card without the proper isolation card, a 403. Otherwise you end up with really bad crosstalk. Most people would just connect MOH to the primary line and call it a day.

The main issue I had with Western's 400H card was putting a call on hold. The microprocessor on the board requires the hold button to be depressed for something like 2 seconds in order for it to work. It sounds dumb, but 2 seconds is forever when you are used to just pressing a button momentarily like any normal human would press a button. As such, you would end up with a lot of dropped calls, and what good is that?

I don't see many of the ITT 400E cards on Ebay, but every time I've acquired some kind of 1A2 panel it usually had a pile of them installed. I've only had one fail on me and it was just a bad diode. I replaced the single diode and the card worked fine again. Might be something to consider if finding Western cards that ring up on bridged ringing is getting difficult.

I refuse to pay $20 and up for a line card, and the few Iss. 15's I've seen on ebay recently are in that price range. The 5 I have I got at the TCI show in Lancaster, PA back in June. If you're into old phones and stuff, you should look into joining TCI. They have a fall show in September in Springfield, IL and you may be able to pick up a bunch of parts for very little coin. The people are awesome and very friendly. They can help you with ANYTHING phone related, trust me on that. Telephone Collectors International website.

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 581
Likes: 6
Member
****
Offline
Member
****
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 581
Likes: 6
To all that have PM'd me asking about equipment, please see my post in Buy and Sell. Thanks smile


Tennessee Technology Solutions, LLC | "Business technology solutions reimagined." | (423) 665-9995 | www.423tech.com
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 7
Member
OP Offline
Member
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 7
I'm going to revive this thread a little bit. After Arthur sent me the 501 I kinda went mute, that in part had to do with school and a little bit of me just wanting to fool around with the thing. The ktu works perfectly, had a little snag at the biginning where i wired it so the lamp voltage was going where the battery voltage was sopposed to, but after that it was smooth sailing. So one of the things i'm getting for the ktu is a 400h. After what chris said I hesitated to get one, but after reading that you have to WAIT 2 seconds before pushing hold, I just thought I'd give it a try. ( the pdf I read: the pdf , look at page 7 at the bold text.). So when I get those in I plan on getting a video posted on the ksu. My desk at the moment with my phones and all my desk . Currently the ksu is connected to my Panasonic easa phone 308, my xlink, and a tda 50 pbx that's slightly broken (it crashes when it gas more than 4 phones connected, hey it was free!). so ill keep this updated. bump

Last edited by PINKBOY1006; 04/07/17 02:58 PM.
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 5,058
Likes: 5
Moderator-1A2, Cabling
*****
Offline
Moderator-1A2, Cabling
*****
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 5,058
Likes: 5
Quite the desk!


Sam


"Where are we going and why are we in this hand basket?"
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 657
Moderator-1A2
***
Offline
Moderator-1A2
***
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 657
That is quite the rig. I dig the old timey AT style keyboard. Do the keys make the loud clacking like the originals? Everyone knows how much I hate those 400H cards. I just sold a whole bunch of 1A2 stuff on craigslist. I made sure I threw in the two H cards I had just so I'd be rid of them. I did forewarn the new owner that they suck. I also sold him a pile of 400D cards with the metallic ringing mod, and some other cards I had laying around. I still have a lifetime supply of line cards. It is nice to have my closet back, though. I filled the back seat of his car with 1A2 gear that I would never have used unless I decided to own my own central office.

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 5,058
Likes: 5
Moderator-1A2, Cabling
*****
Offline
Moderator-1A2, Cabling
*****
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 5,058
Likes: 5
Chris, I think I'm using 400H's without a problem. When I switched to FIOS my 4000Fs stopped working. I tried 400E's - no good. The 400Hs worked fine and have been in and working for ..... 7 years? 10 years? I really don't remember.

I used to love the old IBM keyboards with the trackpoint mouse built in. Loved that positive CLICK!

I had 3 lifetimes supply of 400 cards until Uncle Arthur came up with a need for a load of WECO 400Ds and I sent them out.

Now I've only got 2 lifetimes worth wink

Sam


"Where are we going and why are we in this hand basket?"
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 657
Moderator-1A2
***
Offline
Moderator-1A2
***
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 657
I suppose once you get used to them and their quirks, they work just fine. I just really disliked having to hold the hold button, it seemed counterintuitive. My guess as to why the others stopped working is the dismally low loop current often supplied by fios equipment. I've been doing a lot of testing every chance I get to test loop current with different sources of dial tone. (I scored an older Fluke meter than can read DC mA.) I've found that most sources of "artificial" dial tone hover around 20mA. It's just too low for the mechanical relays on the older line cards. I've seen some older TT pads that really don't like low loop current as well. I really don't know why they do that. How hard would it have been to design it to 27-30 mA? Then it would be almost guaranteed to work with even the most crusty old piece of CPE. I know raising it too high can cause issues, and especially with Voip it can cause echo in an awful hurry, but... I have 2 OBI 200 Voip adapters where the user can CHANGE the loop current to anything between 15 and like 90 mA. I would NEVER set it to anything above 30, but I put mine at 28, and my equipment works like its attached to a real pots line. As much as we see Voip as the enemy sometimes, the fact is it isn't going away, and truth be told, a pots line isn't hard to emulate. You just have to know what the values should be. (The problem is the third world engineers that design this crap have no idea what the numbers should be.) -Sigh-

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,290
Member
*****
Offline
Member
*****
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,290
"Now I've only got 2 lifetimes worth."

When I die, they will be in the will for you. I plan to go first.


Arthur P. Bloom
"30 years of faithful service...15 years on hold"

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 5,058
Likes: 5
Moderator-1A2, Cabling
*****
Offline
Moderator-1A2, Cabling
*****
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 5,058
Likes: 5
"When I die, they will be in the will for you. I plan to go first."

I'm going to hold you to that, Arthur. wink

Sam


"Where are we going and why are we in this hand basket?"
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 17,722
Likes: 18
Member
****
Offline
Member
****
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 17,722
Likes: 18
If there is no adjustment you could always get some loop current regulators from sandman, get the automatic ones than you don't have to mess with them. I've only used them for high loop current, but he has boosters too.


Retired phone dude
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3

Moderated by  ChrisRR, EV607797, Silversam 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Forum Statistics
Forums84
Topics94,262
Posts638,696
Members49,757
Most Online5,661
May 23rd, 2018
Popular Topics(Views)
211,098 Shoretel
187,709 CTX100 install
186,795 1a2 system
Newest Members
BPopilek, Rich F, LewisR, TDKs79, Buttinset
49,757 Registered Users
Top Posters(30 Days)
dexman 18
Toner 12
TDKs79 8
jc2it 4
teleco 4
Who's Online Now
1 members (Toner), 106 guests, and 237 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Contact Us | Sponsored by Atcom: One of the best VoIP Phone Canada Suppliers for your business telephone system!| Terms of Service

Sundance Communications is not affiliated with any of the above manufacturers. Sundance Phone System Forums - VOIP & Cloud Phone Help
©Copyright Sundance Communications 1998-2024
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5