Hey all -

Silversam, the man, hooked me up with a very nice butt set - and that ain't no sham.

He even hooked me up with some other data, which proves that if anything - he ain't no clam.

Well, that concludes today's rap session. So... anyway...

I searched around a bit, but there were too many hits to know where to start.

I'd always thought a butt set was nothing more than a telephone and keypad built into one handset... it seems I couldn't have been more wrong.

Can anyone direct me to a website, or a forum post, something like butt set 101?

Plus I won the meter Arthur pointed me to, so I've got lots of learning to do.

Thanks
Matt

I'd always thought a butt set was nothing more than a telephone and keypad built into one handset... it seems I couldn't have been more wrong.

Hate to burst your bubble but that's all it really is.

-Hal

There are different types and styles but basically that's it. It's learning how to test with it that makes it anything more.

My Harris TS22 will show the line polarity.
But like Bill said it's all the the person that's holding the thing that makes the difference.

In ONE word...."SKILL"

Did the set come with a manual? If not you might be able to find one at the manufacturer's web site. Some butt sets give more info than others, the one I use will show polarity, line voltage, off-hook current, and caller ID. Others may be nothing more than a phone with a pair of alligator clips.

There is no substitute for experience. Using Harris as an example, the TS19 is a basic set that can check polarity. The TS44 will do just about everything except wash dishes. If the person trying to use any piece of equipment doesn't know how to use the features or interpret the results, even the most advanced butt set (or anything else) is pretty much worthless.

Yes, these new Butt Sets are all nice and fancy.

But the best one I ever had was my old Black Rubber Bell System one.

I could connect to a vacant pair and determine if it was open on one side or nice and balanced, when looking for something to connect to from a cross connect.

I would think that you could do the same with the Harris TS-22, but not with the ears I have now.

I couldn't do it now with my old Bell System one either with these ears.

We used to use a butt set to almost like a meter. You could check output voltages on a power supply and (with a decent set of ears) not only tell if there was voltage being supplied, what the voltage was.

We would use a butt set as a jumper to see if connections were xconnected properly (connect points A&B with the test leads. Throw the Talk/Monitor switch and it connected A&B. Throw it off and the connection opened.

Like Merlinman said, Check a CO line for balancing and noise. (I've still got my old black rubber set. And the green Contempra style set too).


Matt - I think I have something somewhere about testing with a butt set. It is down in the dreaded basement though. Give me a day or two.

Try listening to the voltages on the power supply with the butt set. Listen to the difference between 10VAC & 18VAC & 24VDC 105VAC.

You'll be surprised at the difference.


Sam

I sent Matt a few paragraphs on using the "brown" meter. If anyone would like to read it, I'll send it privately, or if there's enough interest, I'll post it here. I didn't want to clog up the Forum if it wasn't of general interest.

In NYC (Manhattan, to be exact) where I worked as a repairmen, we weren't issued a meter. It was only the maintenance splicers ("Galvo") who had them. The model 1011 rubber butt set was all one needed to do basic tests. There is no aerial plant in Manhattan. All cable is either in manholes or inside buildings, and distances from the CO to the terminals are small, so the cables are relatively quiet, and shielded from inductive noise and power influence.

In areas where there was significant outside aerial plant, a butt set did not work as well in identifying faults, and a meter was necessary.

APB

Thanks all -

I'm learning more and more. Sam - no rush on the basement - I'll play around with it; listening to different voltages, and the other things outlined in this thread. Appreciate all the feedback - !

- Matt

With any butt-set you can also check for blown fuses(1a2...) just put the leads on both sides of the fuse, If you hear talk-battery, You got a Blown fuse.

Matt might be a little confused by that. It will work, unless the fuse is not a talk battery fuse.

The accepted method is to put one side of the butt sett on GRD and then alternately touch the supply side and the drop side of each fuse until you hear a difference.

When testing GRD fuses, such as on a 584C panel, the butt set clip must be on a known BAT supply, and then the method is the same as above.

Yea even in the days of two pary service you could use the old "dumb bell" to test which party was on which lugs in the terminal.

Polarity is an issue with analog DID circuits, but not much else these days. However, my contribution to "Butt-Set 101" may come in handy one day:

To test polarity, place the set's black clip on on Tip (+) and the red one on Ring (mnemonic hint Ring = Red). The polarity LED will glow green if the circuit is wired correctly, red if it is reversed.

Matt -

I emailed you with a dozen scanned pages from an old manual on troubleshooting. There's a lot of references to using a butt set. let me know if it helps.

If anybody else is interested, let me know. It's from the Troubleshooting section of Lee's ABC of the Telephone, Volume 3 (Station I&R) 1976 edition, though this section is copied verbatim from a much earlier edition.

Sam

Thanks Sam, All!

Reviewing now....

= Matt

Polarity still counts on GS circuits too. In the old days when polarity had to be right we just put one side of the butt set to ground and see which side drew DT. Didn't need no stinken lights. Of course if everyone did what they were suppose to it was on the right. To expand on what dagwood said. Red, ridge, right, ring.

To expand on what Bill said for you yunggin's:
1)the "ridge" was on the outer sheath of the 1 pair drop wire.

2) Bell foremen used to follow their techs around and if they found that the job wasn't done right, you had to go back. To the point, they'd open every jack, connecting block, etc. & if the "red" wasn't on the right, you'd have to go back.

Post moved to another forum.

- Matt

Matt I think that would be better for another topic and probably in outside plant. Will take a lot of splanen Lucy.

Roger that -

I'll re-post over there.

Thanks! -
Matt

Somewhat off topic - inside of some of the FDI's and larger terminals in buildings here the Qwest techs have written tip-a-canoe. What does that mean/stand for?

Tippecanoe was the site of a battle fought between the Native American Confederacy led by Tecumseh and the US forces led by then Governor William Henry Harrison in 1811.

The Whig party later successfully ran Harrison for President under the slogan "Tip-a-canoe and Tyler too" (referring to John Tyler as VP).

The battle was in what is now Indiana, not Iowa.

Is there a manager/foreman/Union leader named Harrison (or Tecumseh) in the area?

Sam

I still wonder why they are called butt sets.

As in butt-in.

As in when you where them on your tool belt they bang on your butt?

Sam

Right. Or buttinsky, another informal term for someone who gets involved where they are not welcome. But do not fall into the "urban legend" trap that, by coincidence, it was invented by a Mr. Buttinsky. That's simply not true.

Of course, you can always refer to them as a Lineman's Test Set. But that's silly. That would be like calling "dykes" something very politically correct like diagonal cutters!

Of course there was a Mr. Buttinsky. Isidore Buttinsky. He was Alexander Graham Bellinsky's brother in law.

Who, you ask was Alexander Graham Bellinsky?

Why the first Telephone Pole, of course.


Sam

(Debates about what was actually said, or whether battery acid was involved or not aside...)

When the phone was invented: Mr. Watson, come here, I want to see you.

...Watson helps with the acid spill and gets a promotion.

If it had happened today: Watson, get your a** in here NOW.

...Watson is reprimanded and fired (er, uh.. "laid off") for allowing his manager to play with dangerous chemicals.

"Outsourced" is, I believe, the current term.....


Now, back to the correct topic of this thread....

When I first started with the Bell System (Mountain Bell) in Wyoming we refered to the Butt Set as a "Goat". I have no idea where the term came from.

This has been a real interesting topic. Some of the things I learned to do witha Butt set is just things you learned over the years. I guess I never gave it much thought.

I was real impressed Sam to learn about the first telephone pole. :rofl:

Mike

Well, I've got all the tools now - Sam's buttset, the meter Arthur pointed me too (in which the battery appears to still have some life in), and another tool I've always wanted, actually needed badly - a tone generator/receiver.

I havn't been able to do much with the test equip. yet, work has been hectic, and last night I got a crash course in refrigerator repair ... but Sam and Arthur have sent me some things to try/do for learning, I should be able to do the excercises outlined sometime this week, hopefully tonight. Will post back after, more than likely with ... more questions.

Thanks All -
Matt

Like this one merlinman?:



I still break out this one once in awhile when there is another phone guy working in the same closet as I. It's usually good for a few laughs, and it still works good! But I have to say is seems like it's "rough" on the circuit when dialing.

Over here we also had larger butt-sets which were more a portable case with a shoulder strap in order to contain everything. They carried dry cells internally so that they could work as a local-battery phone, and even a transistorized ring-voltage generator so that they could be used to call and talk to a subs line which was isolated from the C.O.

The LB feature is pretty much a thing of the past now, but of course those old units didn't have DTMF, CLID, and would certainly not be "DSL safe."

Question and comment...

I've got a TS22 that has a hiss and crackle for no good reason. I.E. when I connect my TS44 to the CCT everything sounds good. Any reason for this? The cordset on the TS22 is a little on the tired side. Same problem manifests when using the bed of nails or direct to copper sections of the clips.

Matt, I just started in this business a year or so ago, so I feel your pain. My advice, get a pair of scissors. Sounds a little strange I know, but they have special "electricians" scissors you can get at any electrical supply house, or even in the LVW section of Home Depot. They are the BEST tool for line dressing as they have stripping notches, cut through most wire like butter, make really accurate trim cuts, and virtually replace a pair of dykes for things like cable ties, etc.

Good thread. Thanks guys.

cat5installer, that thing is older than I am.

For God's sake (and mine too) do NOT use your snips for cutting tyraps. Go to your local craft store, spend $7 and get a pair of Fiskars 9550 Diagonal Flush Cutters

The way snips leave the tails, you might as well stick your hand into a viper's nest!

Turn the tails into the backboard after you've cut em.... looks better and takes less time than switching tools. Use velcro straps on free-floating cables and Cat5 and above so it doesn't crimp the cables.

We're off topic and its my fault. Sorry guys. Lets keep this on buttsets.

The static on your butt set could be several things, a bad connection in the cords, or set, a dirty dial pad or a bad transmitter or transmitter connection. Going to be a process of elimination.

we call them "snips"

real phone men wear them in a pouch everywhere , (never know when you might need them )

one thing to try on the buttset is to wiggle the cord at the clips and where it goes into the case to see if that effects the static

(I'm assuming you replaced the battery )

Real telephone splicers call them "shears."

Splicers were never real telephone men. :rofl: Just Kidding. We were alaways giving the splicers crap. And yes I always called them "snips" but they go in the left back pocket. I have a pair in my back pocket almost always, better than a pocket knife. Wife gets pissed when a pair goes in the wash. I must have 15 pairs floating around.

Mike

I was a splicer for my first 8 years with Bell and never heard them called anything but snips. We would even use our headsets one side to grd to see if a line was in use before cutting the pair. It was easier to go opps that way.

Shears? Must be a Northeaster thing. Always snips. You could find the rookies by who called them scissors.

"Scissors are for cutting out paper dollies"

Snips it is. Ordered as scissor, electrician, with stripping notch.

Shears? Cable sheath shears or "tabbing" shears were for hooking up grounds after splitting the sheath to allow the grounding sheath shoe to be inserted.

Hip pocket? Not a splicer sitting on a butt box. ISP guys, CO guys, they stuck it behind the belt at the first loop (right or left) while REAL telephone men carry them in a pouch that is made for the snips and cable knife. Now, as real telephone men get older, we carry a small maglite in it's pouch just behind the snip and knife pouch. That way we can see what we are cutting.

Butt sets were used even on open wire to test lines. The old KS brown box was the last thing you wanted to drag up a pole with you.
The only thing you couldn't test with the butt set was common sense.......

Goat? Cause it could butt you?

My 2 cents.

It must be a NorthEast or even just a Big Apple thing to call Electrician's Scissors "shears". Always called shears - and nothing but. Wiss was the favorite brand, followed by Clauss. Klein's shears were third rate in the beginning and then got better. Snips were Tinsnips.

Ken - a similar quote to yours:

As my late partner Moe Harris (who at one time had been the fastest splicer in the Bell System) used to say:

"Seamstresses use scissors. Splicers use shears"

Splicers (besides just putting two wires together) also handled all the carrier equipment. I can't speak for the whole country but in NYC they did and that was GTE policy also. I was surprised that when Verizon installed FIOS at my home it was handled by Installation (albeit a special group) rather then splicing.

Sam

Ken, you don't have to be old to carry a flashlight :p I do a lot of sound work and always carry a leatherman and mini maglite...never know when something is going to break!

Sam....off topic....around here SWBT cable splicers did just that...nothing more. No Carriers, cable repair, nothing but splice cable.

United, later Sprint, now Embarq splicers were also cable repairmen.

With at&t Fiber construction is done by a division of the normal cable construction. Special Services do T-1s, carrier, concentrators, etc.,etc........

Embarq I&R in small exchanges do it all BUT construction and cable splicing/repair.

Yep, must be a NYC thing....I've worked from Maine to Florida, Washington to California, in between, worked for utilities, contractors, the Feds, and even the IBEW....snips is snips.....
Wiss :thumb: Claus :thumb: Klein splicer's knifes and snips are second rate but you don't have much of a choice most places.

BUT (still off topic) Dmarc some times, SNI always, and NID rarely....depending on who you talk to. It is still usually a Keptel unit on the outside of a building.

As they say, the difference between the English and the Americans is the language....same for telco terms.

Back on topic the Walker throw away butt set is one of the cheapest and easiest...plus has an RJ11 plug for testing modular....Harris next....then Premier (I wish North Supply was still open).

"I wish North Supply was still open" Amen to that, brother. If they didn't have it, you could get along without it, in general installation and service tools and parts. Obviously, they didn't carry every brand of key system and pbx, but what they did carry was "Da' gud stuff!" John C.

My Premier buttset is a North Supply original! Must be an antique! Is it worth anything?

Sorry but I just HAVE to take this off topic for a bit....

And you all laugh at me when I wear them to the Mod Meets!

How else do you think I knew you were you in Vega? :shrug: Baseball cap, blue two pocket shirt, blue jeans, and a pouch with knife and snips......ehhhhhh?

:thumb:

See, even in Canucklandia, they are called snips.



As far as butt set....well, try test set, lineman.

:db:

Your Premier Buttset may become valuable before you die, but don't hold your breath, 'Cause then you'll die too soon!
Funny thing, various other outfits started selling Premier items in the late '90's. I bought a Premier buttset from American Electric in Salina, KS for less that I could buy it from NORTH SUPPLY. And they said that was their normal price! And their Connectorized 25 pr was Premier. Long live N/S, may they RIP. John C.

No Dave, we laugh at you cause of the BIX!

used a varistor in series with a 48v lamp to test polarity in open wire. that and a "butt set".

With your tone generator you can connect up to a dry pair and talk with your tech on the far end of a cable run. Just not to far..

Simple is better in my opinion. I cant stand to have to many things happening at one time while testing lines.

"used a varistor in series with a 48v lamp to test polarity in open wire. that and a "butt set".

I know a diode will work for that. Didn't know you could do that with a varistor.

Yeah Arthur the old ceramic covered ones from the early 1A1 and fifty equipment, and WRichey we almost always worked alone so did'nt need to talk to anyone but guys on the test board.Its amazing the test you can do with a butt set.

Sorry for the temporary side-track of a hijack, but:

True Jim. Most of today's technicians never had to troubleshoot over long distances by themselves. When I say long, I speak of miles, not a couple of floors in a building or between them. That's considered "long distances" by today's newer technicians. A couple thousand feet with a butt set, a meter and a moistened fingertip can speak volumes to an educated ear.

Now that I think about it, I still shake my head when I hear that two of my "technicians" will be required in a return visit run a single four-pair cable.

All I can think of is those years of running many 25/50 pair station cables, terminating them, placing sets and leaving them working by the end of the day by ourselves. If today's excuse for a technician only knew what real work is.

Until about ten years ago, it was not uncommon for one tech. to pull 10-20 four-pair cables by themselves. Now all I hear is whining about how much work that is. Wow, times surely have changed.

They all still expect to have state-of-the-art test equipment and butt sets though. Like they would even know how to really use them!

And by the way Arthur maybe you were right maybe it was a diode but I don't think so, course any more I have to think an awful lot about things.

Hey Ed, I hear what you are saying! But here is one tech who knows how to do things the right way!