This may be a rookie question but I'll ask it anyways.

What's the difference between the two if any? I thought they were the same but I had a telco lady tell me over the phone that the Dmarc may not be the MPOE.

I know MPOE is Minimum Point of Entry and I see point of demarcation tags. The more you know...

In general, the MPOE/MPOP is where the cable feeding the building or complex terminates. This is also known as the "cable head" in slang terminology. This might be at a completely separate address, which is especially common in strip malls or small office complexes. In multi-story buildings, the MPOE/MPOP is pretty much a no-brainer, since it is in the building's basement or ground-level utility entrance area.

In my area, a new strip mall was built and the MPOE was determined to be located at 5700-A Plank Rd. The store addresses range up to 5700-P. The distance between the MPOE/MPOP and unit P is nearly a thousand feet, but Verizon's responsibility ends at 5700-A, period. Due to our state's PUC guidelines, unit A is the point of demarcation, hence the point at which Verizon's responsibility ends.

The point of demarcation (DMARC) is entirely up to your state's definition of where the telco's responsibility ends. You would have to inquire with the PUC to determine where this line is drawn. In some places, the point of demarcation is at the MPOE/MPOP location. In others, the telco is required to extend service from the MPOE/MPOP to any wall that is a physical part of the customer's address.

This is a terribly gray area and the telcos are fighting tooth and nail to move the end point of their responsibility further out. There was even talk back in the 80's of this point being the nearest pole or pedestal to the physical street address. Fortunately, that idea didn't take off......yet.

Thanks Ed...

As always Ed did a great job of ‘splainin’ things here… Here is another way to think about it, just to put another frame of reference to it.

“MPOE” is a term to describe a physical point in a building.

“Demarc” is a term to describe a physical point in a circuit. Can be one in the same but not always.

To further Ed’s example…

* Customer in 5700-C orders 4 voice lines in a hunt for their retail operation. They order the service “MPOE.” In that case the Telco installer would bring the 4 lines into 5700-A. Test, tag and done. In this case “MPOE” and the 4 “demarcs” are one in the same.

* Customer in 5700-F orders 1 PRI and also requests “inside wiring” when ordering the Telco service. The install would bring the PRI in to the building through the “MPOE” and carry on with it to suite F. The tech would then install the NID (network interface device, aka smart-jack) inside the customer’s location. In this case the service passes right on through the MPOE and demarcs within the suite. NOT the same thing in this case.

Bryan -

Excellent description! :thumb:


Sam

Great explanations, gentlemen.

Jack

Great help as always.

"Oh" :thumb: I get itjavascript:void(0)

In Bryan's example, where customer ordered "inside wiring": Would all telcos install the NID within customer premises if ordered this way? I've heard various terms, including "dmarc extension," but had a situation about five years ago where there seemed to be nothing we could do to get the telco to install the NID (T-1) inside customer premises---they left it further on down the strip center.

well put, Ed & Bryan. thanks!

If a circuit was ordered as a UNE circuit then, under tarrif, the telco is not allowed to provide any inside wiring (deregulated wiring)so the circuit gets dropped at the MPOE. If the circuit was ordered as a special circuit then the telco can provide deregulated wiring to where ever the customer wants the circuits dropped for t&m but (Brian correct me if I'm wrong) there is nothing saying the telco has to extend the circuit.

Being an installer for a telco, I have always wondered about what was going through peoples minds when they designed or retro-fitted their buildings. More times than not, I'll go to these great big buildings where they have just spent thousands to have it cabled out, yet they run no cable to the mpoe and pay the telco to extend the circuits up to their phone room. Just makes no sense to me as I know what we charge.

Speaking in general terms yes they “should” extend to customer the suite and place the NID there… The bad thing with a “blanket statement” one this subject is, there are a lot of variables that can pop-up here. There can be state or local rules that vary from location to location… Regional policies can vary, even within the same Telco on how demarc extensions should be treated… And there are some multi-tenant buildings that have their own rules that preclude anyone but their own vendor from doing ANY inside wiring work beyond the MPOE…