Hey ev, this is why I was asking you about the picabond connectors;

I have a golf course that has a 100 pair privately owned line that joins their clubhouse to the maintenance shop. I am using this line to carry stations out into the shop from the KSU as well as joining the alarm system. There is a pedestal that is basically being used just as a junction point about halfway between the two buildings. I have to get rid of this pedestal because they are putting a driveway right through it. I was going to do a burial enclosure and just join the 100pr with those connectors.

Any other ideas?

I also thought about relocating that pedestal to the side of the new driveway and install a new pestestal on the other side with a new piece of 100pr in between.

Is the 100 pair in the ped just 2 cables coming in (100 pair each) spliced together or is there other cables or drops working out of it?

------------------

Just two. They built a new clubhouse last year and cut the 100pr. Somebody ran a new piece from the clubhouse and installed that box for a splice point.

The easiest and cheapest way would be as you suggest, two pedestals with a new run between.

If the distance isn't too great from one building to the existing pedestal location, it may be worth it to move the pedestal and replace the cable from the building to the new location.

-Hal

If it's not serving any purpose other than a splice point, bury it and use a good buried encapsulent to keep it from getting wet, also bond it through on the sheath.

I agree - splice it and bury it. As long as you do a really good job - bond it good, close it up good. If the splice is going to be under a drive way, you don't want to have problems with it. But you did say it was 100 pair and not much working out of it, right? I had a similar situation but the splice ended up under a really big green power transformer. A year later we had to replace the section and I don't have a clue why. I thought I did a really good job on it.

------------------

There are some engineering factors that must be considered here.
1) What's the cable depth?
2) What's the depth of the new road base?

Yes, 100pr with not much going through it. No need for that pedestal, just a splice.

I was told it was originally put in with a ground slitter, so it won't be very deep on the one side. The side they cut during construction, may be a little deeper due to them replacing that piece, probably with a backhoe.

The road will be just a new gravel access route to the maintenance shop.

I have the same situation at the local golf club --- 6 pr. buried drop that went bad because it was buried down the driveway to the maintenance shop. Rock ledges and washouts. Waiting for the customer to decide if they want it replaced.

The two peds will pay for themselves over the buried splice. Down the road you may need to pick up pairs, repair circuits, etc., but if you splice it you'll have a potential failure point (even if done "right"). I have seen 4" concrete-encased, re-bar strengthened PVC duct "floated" out of the ground, damaging a 200 pr. 19 AWG cable due to heavy equipment traffic.

Maybe a conduit under (GIP -- ooops, Galvinized Iron Pipe) under the road just in case? That way, in the future, you could replace the cable without digging up the roadway.

Use the peds. KLD (former cable repairman / splicer)

[This message has been edited by KLD (edited August 28, 2005).]

My advice is to buy a couple of cheap pedestals (UPC-BD3) with a new section of cable installed between them is the way to go.

Don't spend the money on a Picabond crimper or the modules themselves if you aren't a cable splicer by trade. It's to much money to spend for just one job. Use Scotchloks and use their crimping tool (don't try slip-joint pliers; you can over-crimp them where they actually cut the wire you are trying to splice).

If you plan to be supporting buried plant repairs on a regular basis, consider investing in tooling for modular splicing systems, such as 710 or MS2. Both are very popular but tooling is expensive. For smaller jobs, like yours, you can just stick with Scotchloks, or an equivalent.

Remember that just connecting the individual pairs back together isn't all that's involved. You will need to make sure that you maintain the sheath (aluminum shield) across the splice. It should also be grounded at the pedestal to a ground rod.

We use 3M #4465 (I think this is close to the part number) for sheath bond connections and "bond braid" that is perforated with eylets to connect to the bond bar in the pedestal. Then, just run #6 copper wire from the bond bar to the pedestal's ground rod.

If you are new to outside plant maintenance, stay away from buried splices. Until you are completely familiar with sheath bond clamps, splicing systems, etc., just keep everything "above ground" in pedestals so that even if you don't do it correctly, it can always be corrected without a shovel.

------------------
Ed
---------
How come there's always enough time to go back and fix it a second time?

All this great info and nobody asked if the can was "bells"

Again this is all great advise but if bell gets there panties in a wad and that can belongs to them look out.

Did the owner have a survey done by the power company and bell before desiding to do this work?

No, he said in his original post that it was a privately-owned cable at the site.

------------------
Ed
---------
How come there's always enough time to go back and fix it a second time?

Well you have several opinions to choose from. I'd still bury it, put a pipe or pvc in if ya want. As long on you use a good encapsulent you shouldn't have any problems, and even if you do you've said you have plenty of spare pairs. Those golf carts and other vehicles using that drive are just going to use the peds for bumper cars.

I've got this cat, you see and I need some advice on how to get the hide off of it. I've gotton some good advice but I'm not sure which way I want to go yet. Any thoughts?

------------------

My bad I over looked that little piece of info .
I guess because I could not understand why the can in the middle of the run

Sorry

Right Mark. Think you're going to find this catagory isn't as cut and dried as some of the others. You said it. There's more than one way to skin a cat.

Well I figured out how to get the hide off but my wife says she liked it better the way it was.

------------------

Ok, did a site visit today, shovel in hand. The 100pr is only about 6 inches below and they told me they are going to remove the topsoil and fill it with gravel. I will have to get that piece in the ground deeper. I think the way to go is with 2 peds and a new piece between them dug deeper.

I checked the grounding like you advised me ev and the oringinal cable from the can to the shop has aluminum sheath, but is not grounded. The cable they replaced from the clubhouse to the can has no ground sheath of any sort. I even checked both ends and cut it back a bit in the clubhouse to look at it better. It is burial cable, but no ground shield.

I also noticed they have no protection on either end of this cable as it enters the buildings.

I told them I would do the work (I am not an outside tech of any sort but they have been a great customer). I did say I wanted to do it right this time and had to include some protection on both ends.

Well, you are in Bell Canada territory and I suspect that with minimal lightning exposure, it's possible that unshielded cable was permitted at some time. That doesn't make much sense to me though, I mean the shielding isn't just for lightning protection issues. I think it's now an international standard. Not to mention that Bell Canada was once a part of the Bell System with over a hundred years of uniform standards.

I have seen some European cable catalogs that actually sell direct-burial and aerial cable that does not include any form of shielded jacketing and it's not just drop wire. I am not quite sure what that's all about. Here in the United States, the only black cable (aerial or underground, except for drop wire) that I have seen without shielding is IMSA (traffic signal) cable. It resembles telephone cable in every other aspect except for shielding.

As for the lack of protected entrance terminals, I think you know the answer there. Sounds like this job stinks of an unprofessional installation from the get-go. Probably something "the maintance man" did years ago. Sure, we would all love to go in and tell the customer that it's 100% wrong, but they will never believe you. Even if they do, it won't be until it fails and costs them LOTS of money in a lawsuit before they are willing to do anything.

If I were you, I would advise the customer of how it should be done, document what you have told them, then just place two new pedestals with the replacement section of cable buried at a proper depth (I don't know if Canada follows the same regulations we do here due to frost lines, etc.). Channell Commercial Corp. makes some nice rounded, low-profile all-PVC pedestals that might make the risk of golf cart damage less of a concern.

------------------
Ed
---------
How come there's always enough time to go back and fix it a second time?

[This message has been edited by ev607797 (edited August 29, 2005).]

Hey, Mark, "Here, Kitty, Kitty, Kitty".

That cat can be skinned ---- just hope it has been declawed and doesn't have a white stripe down it's back !!

Thanks ev.

It might not be a bad idea to go back to the equipment end and see what kind of termination job and protection is there. Heaven forbid you go to the trouble of doing this just to have some act-of-God knock them out and you get the blame. Heck, we've been blamed for HVAC systems going out a day or two after we did a simple install.

------------------

Mark3906:

You are not kidding. Just our truck in the parking lot and everything that stops working from that day forward had something to do with us. It kills me when we are working in a high-rise and a completely different office starts having problems with their paging or something like that. "It must have something to do with what your people were doing ten floors above".

------------------
Ed
---------
How come there's always enough time to go back and fix it a second time?

I would probably go with one pedestal, and make the other side a splice in a cristy box.
That gives you a test point, and access to both ends of the cable section.
Either that, or just two splices in cristy boxes.

I'm new to the forum, but not new to telephone work. Everyone has given you the possible options, which all are a possibility. For what it's worth, if it were me, I avoid buried splices if at all possible. Doesn't matter to me if it's air core of filled cable.

No protection? Needs protection, period. (there are particular exceptions about bonding and grounding the cable shield when located within the ground potential rise, GPR, area of power generating or sub station, but that is another entirely differenct subject)

One comment, about the non shielded cable. That's a bad deal, not only for lightning purposes, but one big reason is power influence. I've been doing alot of noise and power mitigation and when we have an open cable shield where we have exposure to power, aerial or buried facilities, there is nothing to throw it 180 degrees out of phase from our cable pairs. For those of you that perform noise mitigation, you know what I mean.

Thanks for letting me jump in, and from what I have read so far on this forum, you all have alot of knowledge.


[This message has been edited by mwann (edited September 12, 2005).]

I agree with your analysis of power induction on non bonded cable. If it were me, in that envionment, with what he has to work with, I'd just replace the cable between the two buildings, no peds, no splice and a sheathed cable and protectors for all the reasons stated.

justbill,

If it was me, and that was possible, that's exactly what I'd do too.

Sounds like you know about running power influence problems, so having said that, if he can't make MGN connections it won't even matter....

[This message has been edited by mwann (edited September 12, 2005).]

Gotta throw in my $0.02.

I think I would try and go with 2 vaults. I don't think I would EVER consider burying a splice! I have seen too many pedastals run over detroying the contents. I would definitely convince them to at least start doing things correctly. dig down at least 3' install at least 2' conduit (small run across the road shouldn't be an issue) and install vaults. all futer adds and repairs will be a breeze and no worry of vehicular damage!
as far as protection goes, you should, but economically I doubt it could be done. (Ground rod in the vault and bond your 50 feet of cable section to it? )
BTW, Vault is equal to a plastic irrigation box.
Good luck, better hurry before the weather changes.

Just a lowly I&R Tech here guys so I'll apologize in advance if this sounds stupid but I didn't catch any distances here and if the run from the "new" ped location to the shop is close enough wouldn't a couple of bsw's work? doesn't sound like we're talking about alot of copper being used here.

Ha just read the dates on the previous posts...
probobly done by now eh? duh.

There are many avenues for you to take........I would consider burying the spice. However, with technolgy changing and the customers demand growing as well. The existing cable may not carry the new circuits, so it may need to be replaced someday. I would purchase the best buried clousure and place a conduit under the drivway for future. Go ahead and bury the splice just be Damn sure your do a good job closing up the splice.......Good luck!!!