I'm helping a friend, a fellow contractor, wire an 8,000 sq ft house being renovated from the walls in.
The EC on the job got his panties in a knot because he thought he'd get all the low-v work, but my friend, who specializes in alarms, home audio, data networks, etc, got that part of the job.
As a consolation prize, the low-v contractor, the GC, the architect and the owner told Sparkie that he could have the work to trench-in the TV and telephone service from the street to the house, a distance of 400 feet, and the control cable from the house for the automatic gate, another 300 feet or so.
Sparkie then asked my friend what kind of wire to use. My friend told him, "You're the Master Electrician...I'm not going to tell you how to do your job."
From the TV / Tel pedestals, Sparkie buried a 1.000" schedule 40 PVC pipe, inside of which he pulled two Cat5e cables and an RG6.
Going the other direction towards the automatic gate, he buried a 1.500" schedule 40 PVC with one Cat5e and one 12-2 w/Ground UF, INSIDE THE SAME PIPE.
Tomorrow, on the advice of my friend and me, the GC will be having "an open and frank exchange of views" with Sparkie. I'm glad I'll be somewhere else when the cussin' and spittin' begins.
It never ends. We had a new dimming system installed here at school and the electrician didn't understand why he had to keep the wires twisted for the control cable. It's digital data! His terminations were awful.
Arthur, I don't know why your head didn't explode upon sight of that. I can't even begin to imagine how I would have reacted.
Well at least he told the "Master Elecrician" were to get off.
It's just amazing, I agree. When you see them install the proper sized conductors for the line voltage, but have no clue what they're doing when it comes to low-V, you have to wonder...
In our case, they renovated the auditorium. They took all the outlets and stuff out of the walls so they could put new acoustic panels on. This included the microphone plates which they just cut off. They were smart enough to know what they could not figure out how to reinstall them, so they paid me to do it. Funny thing, I'm sure that I would have had to redo them if they had tried to do it themselves. They did manage to screw up some of my stage lighting circuits too. It's only 3 wires, going to one receptacle. They came back a few times and finally made it right.
Going the other direction towards the automatic gate, he buried a 1.500" schedule 40 PVC with one Cat5e and one 12-2 w/Ground UF, INSIDE THE SAME PIPE.
I wouldn't be too hard on him, he might have read what I have been teaching over on the electrical forums. Most likely though he had no idea and just did it that way. That actually is the correct way to run power and LV in the same conduit.
The thing to remember is that the CAT5 cannot be in the same box with the STRIPPED conductors of he UF unless you provide a partition in the box. Normally you would just have both the cables coming out of the conduit and put some duct seal on the ends if outside. Then run the exposed UF into a box and the CAT5 to wherever.
-Hal
See my post #8 in
this thread. -Hal
From the TV / Tel pedestals, Sparkie buried a 1.000" schedule 40 PVC pipe, inside of which he pulled two Cat5e cables and an RG6.
Oh yeah. I missed that jem! Even RG-11 ain't gonna cut it at 400 feet. Should be flooded .500. Then of course we come to that &*%$@ friggin CAT5 crap! Should be 6 pair BSW. And this all means a hell of a lot bigger conduit.
-Hal
Yes, the feeds are Cat5e, unshielded and unbonded. The electrical inspector will not write up a violation on this simply because "it's low voltage, and we don't inspect low voltage."
The RG6 will not make it over that distance. But Sparkie thinks it's OK.
I have been called in on many, many auto gate jobs where the gates acted flaky. The culprit every time was the proximity of the signal cable and the power cable.
When the gate starts to open, the EMF pulse in the 110 line creates a blip on the signal cable, and the gate stops opening (or closing) and goes the other direction, or goes half way, and reverses again, or stalls completely.
Putting an unshielded Cat5e from the house to the gate, right next to the UF cable, will cause this havoc.
My recommendation is not to put the signal and power even in the same trench. Separate them by at least a foot, and always use BSW, properly bonded and grounded, for the signal cable.
The electrical inspector will not write up a violation on this simply because "it's low voltage, and we don't inspect low voltage."
Low voltage outside of the premises doesn't fall under the NEC so there is nothing for the inspector to inspect.
-Hal
Maybe I've been misinformed, but I believe that the method of bonding the entrance cable is covered by the NEC. No shield, therefore no bond, therefore a violation.
I believe that the method of bonding the entrance cable is covered by the NEC
Yes, 800.22
-Hal
Arthur, what happened with sparkie?
Jack
Sparkie, he mad now, boss.
Me bring big spools coax and BSW.
Me install in trench.
Me bring into building and rip out Sparkie wire.
Him complain to GC.
GC tell Sparkie too bad, Phone Man know what he doin' and you don't.
Originally posted by Arthur P. Bloom:
Sparkie, he mad now, boss.
Me bring big spools coax and BSW.
Me install in trench.
Me bring into building and rip out Sparkie wire.
Him complain to GC.
GC tell Sparkie too bad, Phone Man know what he doin' and you don't.
:rofl: Love the ogre talk, too. So easy a caveman can do it (but not a sparkie!)
Jack
Actually, I was aiming at Jamaican, but I can see where you might think it's Cave Man.
I love it when a plan comes together!
" So easy a caveman can do it (but not a sparkie!)"
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:rofl: