atcomsystems.ca/forum Forums TDM Business Telephone Systems Mitel Telephones & Systems Indeterminate and Not Seizable

I've already done the activity switch disable on all 3 sx2k systems to isolate which one is 'hosting' the problem. I've separated switchover time-frames by an hour between sites. When I come in each a.m., the faulty circuit shows frame slips toward the CPE. I can clear the problem by either reseting the CSU (Adtran) or loading the formatter I card. I've swapped formatter I with known good and rolled the CSUs.

I've attached the maintenance log showing entries from activity switch start to end, plus the scheduled DBMS check several hours later (this is a typical log from each day at the same time):

2007-OCT-17 05:06:19 MAINTENANCE B/Active *Major* PBX0101 #0052
DBMS info: DBMS CHECK completed.
00 database error(s) detected.
00 form(s) could not be accessed.


2007-OCT-17 02:43:09 MAINTENANCE B/Active *Major* PBX0101 #0051
The PROGRAMMED ACTIVITY SWITCH sequence has COMPLETED.

2007-OCT-17 02:19:26 MAINTENANCE B/Active *Major* PBX0101 #0050
The link from MC215AD Main Controller IIIE at location 01 1 02 Inactive
to MC312AB Peripheral Cont I at location 07 1 16 Active
is now OPEN.

2007-OCT-17 02:19:25 MAINTENANCE B/Active *Major* PBX0101 #0049
The link from MC215AD Main Controller IIIE at location 01 1 02 Inactive
to MC312AB Peripheral Cont I at location 07 1 16 Active
is now in SCANNING mode.

2007-OCT-17 02:17:25 MAINTENANCE B/Active *Major* PBX0101 #0048
MC215AD Main Controller IIIE at location 1 1 2
Tone Detector circuit 2 was returned to service


2007-OCT-17 02:17:24 MAINTENANCE B/Active *Major* PBX0101 #0047
The link from MC215AD Main Controller IIIE at location 01 1 07 Active
to MC215AD Main Controller IIIE at location 01 1 02 Inactive
is now OPEN.

2007-OCT-17 02:17:13 MAINTENANCE B/Active *Major* PBX0101 #0046
MC215AD Main Controller IIIE at location 1 1 2
Conference circuit 3 was returned to service


2007-OCT-17 02:17:03 MAINTENANCE B/Active *Major* PBX0101 #0045
MC215AD Main Controller IIIE at location 1 1 2
Tone Generator circuit 4 was returned to service


2007-OCT-17 02:17:02 MAINTENANCE B/Active *Major* PBX0101 #0044
The link from MC215AD Main Controller IIIE at location 01 1 02 Inactive
to MC312AB Peripheral Cont I at location 07 1 16 Active
is now OPEN.

2007-OCT-17 02:17:02 MAINTENANCE B/Active *Major* PBX0101 #0043
The link from MC215AD Main Controller IIIE at location 01 1 02 Inactive
to MC312AB Peripheral Cont I at location 07 1 16 Active
is now in SCANNING mode.

2007-OCT-17 02:15:55 MAINTENANCE B/Active *Major* PBX0101 #0042
MC270AA Universal T1 at location 02 1 03 02
Type of diagnostics : Background
Scope of report : Hybrid
Reason(s) for report:
- Signalling Medium Present

2007-OCT-17 02:15:55 MAINTENANCE B/Active *Major* PBX0101 #0041
MC270AA Universal T1 at location 02 1 03 01
Type of diagnostics : Background
Scope of report : Hybrid
Reason(s) for report:
- Signalling Medium Present

2007-OCT-17 02:15:45 MAINTENANCE B/Active *Major* PBX0101 #0040
The link from MC215AD Main Controller IIIE at location 01 1 07 Active
to MC215Ax Main Controller IIIE at location 01 1 02 Inactive
is now CLOSED.

2007-OCT-17 02:15:42 MAINTENANCE B/Active *Major* PBX0101 #0039
---------------+--------+-------+-------+-------+---------+---------+----------
|Total In| Unavailable | Alarm Threshold Percentages
Category | System | Total | % | Alarm | MINOR | MAJOR | CRITICAL
---------------+--------+-------+-------+-------+---------+---------+----------
Trunks | 146 | 23 | 15 % | Major | > 0 % | 10 % | 100 % |
Digital Links | 6 | 1 | 16 % | Major | - | > 0 % | - |
---------------+--------+-------+-------+-------+---------+---------+----------


2007-OCT-17 02:15:42 MAINTENANCE B/Active *Major* PBX0101 #0038
------------
Current System Alarm : | MAJOR | viewed from Active
------------


2007-OCT-17 02:15:23 MAINTENANCE B/Active -Info- PBX0101 #0037
MC215AD Main Controller IIIE at location 1 1 7
Tone Detector circuit 2 was returned to service


2007-OCT-17 02:15:20 MAINTENANCE B/Active -Info- PBX0101 #0036
MC263BA DS1 Formatter at location 03 1 05 01
Type of diagnostics : Background
Scope of report : Hybrid
Reason(s) for report:
- Far end alarm : Present

2007-OCT-17 02:15:20 MAINTENANCE B/Active -Info- PBX0101 #0035
MC215AD Main Controller IIIE at location 1 1 2
Tone Detector circuit 2 was returned to service


2007-OCT-17 02:15:20 MAINTENANCE B/Active -Info- PBX0101 #0034
MC312AB Peripheral Cont I at location 8 1 16
DTMF Receiver circuit 7 was returned to service


2007-OCT-17 02:15:20 MAINTENANCE B/Active -Info- PBX0101 #0033
MC312AB Peripheral Cont I at location 8 1 16
DTMF Receiver circuit 1 was returned to service


2007-OCT-17 02:15:20 MAINTENANCE B/Active -Info- PBX0101 #0032
MC312AB Peripheral Cont I at location 5 1 16
DTMF Receiver circuit 7 was returned to service


2007-OCT-17 02:15:20 MAINTENANCE B/Active -Info- PBX0101 #0031
MC312AB Peripheral Cont I at location 5 1 16
DTMF Receiver circuit 1 was returned to service


2007-OCT-17 02:15:16 MAINTENANCE B/Active -Info- PBX0101 #0030
ACTIVITY SWITCH to MC215AD Main Controller IIIE at location 01 1 07
from MC215AD Main Controller IIIE at location 01 1 02
was SUCCESSFUL.
The reason(s) for the switch attempt :
- Programmed Activity Switch

2007-OCT-17 02:15:16 MAINTENANCE B/Active -Info- PBX0101 #0029
MC215AD Main Controller IIIE at location 1 1 2
Conference circuit 3 was returned to service


2007-OCT-17 02:15:16 MAINTENANCE B/Active -Info- PBX0101 #0028
MC215AD Main Controller IIIE at location 1 1 2
Tone Generator circuit 4 was returned to service


2007-OCT-17 02:15:14 MAINTENANCE B/Active -Info- PBX0101 #0027
MC312AB Peripheral Cont I at location 4 1 16
DTMF Receiver circuit 7 was returned to service


2007-OCT-17 02:15:14 MAINTENANCE B/Active -Info- PBX0101 #0026
MC312AB Peripheral Cont I at location 4 1 16
DTMF Receiver circuit 1 was returned to service


2007-OCT-17 02:15:12 MAINTENANCE B/Active -Info- PBX0101 #0025
MC312AB Peripheral Cont I at location 7 1 16
DTMF Receiver circuit 7 was returned to service


2007-OCT-17 02:15:12 MAINTENANCE B/Active -Info- PBX0101 #0024
MC312AB Peripheral Cont I at location 7 1 16
DTMF Receiver circuit 1 was returned to service


2007-OCT-17 02:15:10 MAINTENANCE B/Active -Info- PBX0101 #0023
MC312AB Peripheral Cont I at location 06 1 16 installed

2007-OCT-17 02:15:10 MAINTENANCE B/Active -Info- PBX0101 #0022
MC312Ax Peripheral Cont I at location 06 1 16 removed

2007-OCT-17 02:15:08 MAINTENANCE B/Active -Info- PBX0101 #0021
MC215AD Main Controller IIIE at location 1 1 7
Conference circuit 3 was returned to service


2007-OCT-17 02:15:08 MAINTENANCE B/Active -Info- PBX0101 #0020
MC215AD Main Controller IIIE at location 1 1 7
Tone Generator circuit 4 was returned to service


2007-OCT-17 02:15:08 MAINTENANCE B/Active -Info- PBX0101 #0019
MC312AB Peripheral Cont I at location 6 1 16
DTMF Receiver circuit 7 was returned to service


2007-OCT-17 02:15:08 MAINTENANCE B/Active -Info- PBX0101 #0018
MC312AB Peripheral Cont I at location 6 1 16
DTMF Receiver circuit 1 was returned to service


2007-OCT-17 02:15:07 MAINTENANCE B/Active -Info- PBX0101 #0017
MC215AD Main Controller IIIE at location 1 1 7
Tone Detector circuit 2 was taken out of service
due to loss of sanity

These logs just show the system coming back on line after a reboot, When you come in the morning can you make a call over each one of your tie circuits before you reset anything? does the call fail or are you basing your failure on the "indeterminate " status of the circuit? Have you tried doing a DT Clear (plid) to clear up any alarms?

"the faulty circuit shows frame slips toward the CPE" Where are you getting this info from? what piece of equipment is telling you this?

The 2K will show you a digital link alarm if there is a problem like slips,clocking, carrier failure. and Doing a DT Clear will correct these errors. They are info alarms to let you know something has happened that requries some attention but not usually service effecting.

Let us know

Disregard the "indeterminate" status, the trunks are "not seizable". Calls will not go over the link.

Each morning when I arrive, it's a major alarm, and calls route to 2nd choice.
**********************************************
Current System Alarm : | MAJOR | viewed from Active
------------


---------------+--------+-------+-------+-------+---------+---------+----------
|Total In| Unavailable | Alarm Threshold Percentages
Category | System | Total | % | Alarm | MINOR | MAJOR | CRITICAL
---------------+--------+-------+-------+-------+---------+---------+----------
Trunks | 146 | 23 | 15 % | Major | > 0 % | 10 % | 100 % |
Digital Links | 6 | 1 | 16 % | Major | - | > 0 % | - |
---------------+--------+-------+-------+-------+---------+---------+----------
*************************************

A stat of the affected card:

*************************************
3 1 5 1 1| DS1 Formatter | Not Seizable | | |
3 1 5 1 2| DS1 Formatter | Not Seizable | | |
3 1 5 1 3| DS1 Formatter | Not Seizable | | |
3 1 5 1 4| DS1 Formatter | Not Seizable | | |
3 1 5 1 5| DS1 Formatter | Not Seizable | | |
3 1 5 1 6| DS1 Formatter | Not Seizable | | |
3 1 5 1 7| DS1 Formatter | Not Seizable | | |
3 1 5 1 8| DS1 Formatter | Not Seizable | | |
3 1 5 1 9| DS1 Formatter | Not Seizable | | |
3 1 5 1 10| DS1 Formatter | Not Seizable | | |
3 1 5 1 11| DS1 Formatter | Not Seizable | | |
3 1 5 1 12| DS1 Formatter | Not Seizable | | |
3 1 5 1 13| DS1 Formatter | Not Seizable | | |
3 1 5 1 14| DS1 Formatter | Not Seizable | | |
3 1 5 1 15| DS1 Formatter | Not Seizable | | |
3 1 5 1 16| DS1 Formatter | Not Seizable | | |
3 1 5 1 17| DS1 Formatter | Not Seizable | | |
3 1 5 1 18| DS1 Formatter | Not Seizable | | |
3 1 5 1 19| DS1 Formatter | Not Seizable | | |
3 1 5 1 20| DS1 Formatter | Not Seizable | | |
3 1 5 1 21| DS1 Formatter | Not Seizable | | |
3 1 5 1 22| DS1 Formatter | Not Seizable | | |
3 1 5 1 23| DS1 Formatter | Not Seizable | | |

*********************************
DTS for the last 24 hours:

*********************************
DS1 Formatter 3 1 5 1
Link is not available, receiving lost of multiframe
level max avg mode duty bit
2 re- CRC re- re- con- cycle framing error
Time resets trans error trans trans gestion (%) losses slips rate
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
6:08 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
6:00 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
5:00 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
4:00 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
3:00 0 0 4 3 3 0 25 5 1 0
2:00 0 0 0 4 2 0 100 0 0 0
1:00 0 0 0 3 2 0 100 0 0 0
0:00 0 0 0 4 2 0 100 0 0 0
23:00 0 0 0 4 3 0 100 0 0 0
22:00 0 0 0 0 0 0 100 0 0 0
21:00 0 0 0 4 3 0 100 0 0 0
20:00 0 0 0 3 3 0 100 0 0 0
19:00 0 0 0 4 2 0 100 0 0 0
18:00 0 0 0 4 2 0 100 0 0 0
17:00 0 0 0 4 2 0 100 0 0 0
16:00 0 0 0 4 2 0 100 0 0 0
15:00 0 0 0 4 2 0 100 0 0 0
14:00 0 0 0 4 2 0 100 0 0 0
13:00 0 0 0 4 2 0 100 0 0 0
12:00 0 0 0 4 2 0 100 0 0 0
11:00 0 0 0 4 2 0 100 0 0 0
10:00 0 0 0 4 2 0 100 0 0 0
9:00 0 0 0 4 2 0 100 0 0 0
8:00 0 0 0 4 2 0 100 0 0 0
7:00 0 0 0 2 1 0 70 0 0 0
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

The other "frame slips" error is read from the CSU. The external CSU is used to convert AMI/D4 from the PBX to ESF/B8ZS from the carrier.

I'd like to verify the particular settings in the Link Descrip form:

**************************************

│Address for Message Control (A/B). . . . . . . . . . . . . B │
│BER - Maintenance Limit, 10**-n, n=(3,4,5,6) . . . . . . . 4 │
│BER - Service Limit, 10**-n, n=(3,4,5,6) . . . . . . . . . 3 │
│Data Call Alternate Digit Inversion (Yes/No) . . . . . . . Yes │
│Framing Losses in 24 hrs - Maintenance Limit (0-9000). . . 255 │
│Framing Losses in 24 hrs - Service Limit (0-9000). . . . . 9000 │
│Integrated Digital Access . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . DPNSS │
│QSIG Private Network Access (Yes/No) . . . . . . . . . . . No │
│Vendor Inter-working Type . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . │
│Satellite Link Delay (Yes/No). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . No │
│Slip Rate - Maintenance Limit (0-9000) . . . . . . . . . . 255 │
│Slip Rate - Service Limit (0-9000) . . . . . . . . . . . . 7000 │
DS1 Parameters: │
│Alarm Debounce Timer - Service Limit (300-3200). . . . . . 500 │
│B8ZS Zero Code Suppression - (Yes/No). . . . . . . . . . . No │
│ │
│ Universal T1 and Enhanced Dual T1 Card only: │
│Operation Mode (CSU/DSX-1) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . CSU │
│CSU Tx Line Build-Out(0,7.5,15,22.5 db). . . . . . . . . . 0 │
│DSX-1 line Length(0-133,134-266,267-399,400-533,534-655 ft) 0-133 │
│Extended Super Frame (Yes/No). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . No │
│Inverted D channel ( DPNSS only ) (Yes/No) . . . . . . . . Yes │
Universal E1 and Enhanced Dual E1 only: │
│CRC-4 enabled(Yes,No). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . No │
│E1 line Length(0-133,134-266,267-399,400-533,534-655 ft) . 0-133 │
│E1 Impedance (75,120 ohms) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 120 │
│ │
│ Italian Parameters: │
│Digital Link Fault Delay Timer (0-360 sec) . . . . . . . . 240 │
│ │
│ Universal T1/E1 Coding Conversion Parameters: │
│Voice conversion (Nil/ADI/Invert/Inverted ADI). . . . . . . Nil │
│Data conversion (Nil/ADI/Invert/Inverted ADI). . . . . . . Nil │
***********************************

Thanks again for your input!

Log into maintenance, and issue the command
Back off ds1.
That will turn off the back ground diagnostics for the Ds1 channels.
Check tomorrow morning to see if it's had an effect on your symptons.
Contact us anytime if we can be of any assistance!

2007-OCT-17 02:15:20 MAINTENANCE B/Active -Info- PBX0101 #0036
MC263BA DS1 Formatter at location 03 1 05 01
Type of diagnostics : Background
Scope of report : Hybrid
Reason(s) for report:
- Far end alarm : Present

CSU reports frame-slips toward the CPE side, clear to the network


CSU is reporting Slips, DTS shows 1 at 3:00
What model of Aldtran are you using?
What is your first clock source?

“Far end alarm: Present” indicates CSU / far end setting an alarm…


“Operation Mode (CSU/DSX-1) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . CSU”
If you have an external CSU, this should be set to DSX-1

Are there any logs prior to activity switch… inactive plane.

Have you tried another CSU?
Have you tried a new DS1 card or swapping with the one going to the 3300?

If you change to a Formatter II card, you can do away with the external CSU.

"not seizable" is losing channels from the CSU or Carrier, I would follow JimmyV's suggestions of changing or eliminating the CSU and roll formatters to see if problem follows card.

Let us know

wow - great input, thank you.

Yes, I've rolled the CSUs and Formatter I cards, nothing follows the hardware. The errors occur on either of the 2k P2Ps, sometimes random, sometimes both. Never occurs on P2Ps attached to 3300. I've swapped DSU to eliminate backplane & power supply. Clocking is set to c.o. PRIs as 1st choice.

I only like changing one thing at a time, but I'll kill background diags and change DSX/CSU flag to indicate use of external CSUs, will advise tomorrow.

I've also recommended to mgmnt (a while back) that we 'upgrade' to Formatter II cards to eliminate the external CSUs.

Your digital link desc shows address for msg control set to B - have you verified that the other end of the link is set to A?
Also - B8ZS Zero Code Suppression - could be set to yes on both ends.

yes, message control (near end=A far end=B) is set ok for all nodes. Please clarify: you're suggesting B8ZS is set = yes for an AMI/D4 trunk? It's B8ZS/ESF to the carrier (converted at the CSU), but AMI/D4 to the pbx.

All is well this morning - no errors. I'll post again after a few days of running clean. Thanks all for your input.