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#107261 01/21/08 01:39 PM
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We have a Mitel SX 200 Digital.

Last week we had a new property management system installed. We now have problems with the call accounting.

What we have now is a Prophet H-3 call accounting.

To best describe how it is.
Comming out of the Phophet H there are 2 ports, "System" and "SMDR"

SMDR has a Y cable, one to the Mitel and one to the Printer.

System has a Y cable, One to the "digi port" on the pms, the other is left open.


Now the installers tell us they can get the data when we make a phone call. But they say they need 2 way communication here. We are told we need a Data Set.

Our phone vendors told us they can order one, and will try to install it. The guy that would be doing this hasn't installed one it 10 years he said. But the cost of the Data Set seems real high. So I wanted to know what I should be looking for so we can supply the Data set.

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#107262 01/22/08 12:04 AM
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You dont need a data set. The cable from the H3
system port should be connected to the digi y port (no Y cable) & the h3 set up for Ack -NaK for your pms. Which PMS Are you using.

#107263 01/22/08 12:30 AM
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The dataset is used to provide 2 way communication between the PMS system, and the Mitel PBX. It's used to provide updates between the 2 systems for maid status, checkin/checkout, message waiting, guest names, etc., etc..
The Call Accounting (Prophet H3 in your case), receives the raw phone call data from the Mitel(SMDR), applies a price to it, and sends the priced call to the PMS, so it appears on your folio when you check out. The PMS system (typically) needs to have multiple serial ports to accomodate the multiple systems that connect to it (credit cards, vending machines, voice mail, pbx, internet access fees, movice fees, etc, etc,etc,).


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#107264 01/22/08 02:16 AM
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First of all if it was the PMS people told you that you need a Dataset then once again they have proven that when it come to Telecom interfaces most of them are clueless. Still no worries.

I have probably installed 50 H3s and H10s over the years and many more Summa 4 / Xiox products. As TDS said you don't need a Dataset. If they can see the data you are sending and it looks okay to them then the Baud rate, data bits, parity, and stop bits are probably fine as is the format which you are sending the call. The only reason they need 2 way communication with the call accounting system is so that the H3 will not print every call and alarm you to say that it is not posting, AND if it is set up for full handshake then it will not send the call across until it has received an ACK to it's inquiry that something is there to receive the call.

The split cable coming off the SYSTEM port on the H3 was probably used to have a modem hooked up at the same time. Not the best or most elegant way to do it but could work.

Now the first place to start is to get an RS232 line tester and put it in the cable connection between the H3 and the PMS - make sure you have lights on both RD and TD. Make a call and you should see small blip on one of them when you hang up - that will be the H3 sending an inquiry to the PMS. you should then see the PMS answer back on the other light at which point the H3 should send the call across to the PMS. If this full process is not happening then you need to know where it is breaking down in order to determine what to do next. I can only reiterate that if you are taking direction from the PMS people on how to make the H3 interface you are about 99.9% certain to fail in the attempt.

#107265 01/22/08 10:05 AM
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the PMS is called Opera Express by Micros
The info about the dataset was what the interface guy told me on the phone.
We still get the calls to the printer, so as of now we check it daily and add the calls manually.

The interface guy told me he sees the data coming into the digi port, but said we need the data set to for some reason I didnt' catch.

The only thing we changed on the call accounting, the cable that is connects to the digi port. That used to go to a rocket board port by the front desk server. I removed that 9-pin, added a gender changer then a null modem adapter. This now plugs into a cable with the 9-pin on one end and a RJ45 on the other end to a port on the digi.

Now the Interface guy told me they could hook it up without the dataset if we had the server onsite. But with this new PMS we installed, everything is now remotly hosted.

#107266 01/23/08 02:23 AM
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The Mitel Datasets have nothing to do with the connection between the output of the call accounting system, and the input to the PMS system.
As Dane mentioned, taking direction from some PMS folks can lead to a lot of wasted time!


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#107267 01/23/08 03:44 AM
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I would think that he was mistakenly talking about an iPocket as apposed to a dataset, but that would mean they are running on IP instead of serial protocol and if they have a digi board on site then you are running serial in house. So, Why did you have to add the null modem adapter if the interface was working with the previous system? Did you say they are seeing your data?

Anyway I think it would be worth paying someone for a couple of hours to come to the site with the right tools and test equipment to get to the bottom of it and get it working. It probably is cable / connection related or Micros is not communicating the correct information to you.

#107268 01/23/08 01:26 PM
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We just got a new Property managent system.

The cable out of the Prophet used to go to a rocketboard up at the front desk. Then to the server.

We now have upgraded the property management system. No more servers on site at any of the Country Inn hotels. Every thing will now be remotely hosted. Our PMS is now on a VPN and java ran.
So now the cable that used to go to the server at the desk now has to go to the digi port.
Here's the digi.
https://www.digi.com/products/serialservers/portserverts.jsp

On the back of the digi there are 4 Rj45 (Ethernet) ports
https://www.digi.com/products/serialservers/portservertsspecs.jsp scroll down look at the last pic.

The cable from the back of the digi, one end has the RJ45 the other is a 9 pin serial.

When we used the gender changer and connected the cable, he didn't get any information. He told me to connect a Null Modem adapter. I did. He then told me to check a room in and make a call. Called him back, and he said he's getting the data. So is our printer. But it's not being passed on to the remote server.

Now he's told to to double check and look real hard for the DataSet. He said it's a black box. two cables coming out of it. He said follow the cables from the prophet. one of them should go to the dataset. I told him no! The cable goes directly into the Mitel cabinet.

So he tells me there is nothing else he can do untill we get the dataset.
So now the interface installer is now waiting till I get the dataset before he does anything else.

#107269 01/23/08 03:59 PM
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Okay - you do not need a dataset - absolutely not - the guy does not know what he is talking about. However this is similar to the iPocket that I mentioned before. Did they send you these things pre-programmed?

#107270 01/23/08 04:15 PM
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You need to get back to basics. I would find it hard to believe but years ago a UCS used to put Y cables on Hitachis and I know of one company that used to put certain cables on the H3 that Y'd and they were set up for modems and they had resistors across one side on two and three to stop data from bleeding when a modem was plugged in. Get rid of the darn Y cable and plug the cable from the digiport directly into the system port of the H3 then try it. depending on the cable you get you may or may not need the null modem connector.

Those IP to serial port converters can be VERY Particular. How savvy are you on networking/slash IP protocol? If the cable fix above doesn't do the trick and you aren't too familiar with IP protocol you really might want to hire some help 'cause you could be in over your head and I guarantee you you will be way over the head of the PMS person if you start asking questions. That being said I have worked with one or two good PMS people but they are usually few and far between and from what this yahoo has been telling you he isn't one of them. While you would absolutely need the dataset for the PBX interface (which 55 footer explained earlier in the post) but for Call accounting -ABSITIVELY not.

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