atcomsystems.ca/forum Forums General General Telephone & Systems Information Equipment Comparison Advice (ACS, ESI,

Hi-

I've been given the task of researching and purchasing a phone system to be installed at a summer camp. I've received quotes from a number of companies, and I'm trying to make a decision on who to go with... I just want to make sure I'm comparing apples with apples... If one of the phone manufacturers is inferior (or superior) compared to another, I want to be able to take that into account.

If somebody is able to shed a little light on this, or refer me to a website or article that can, I would greatly appreciate it!

I have received quotes on systems with:

-Partner ACS phones with an ACS R7.0 Processor

- ESI phones with an ESI IVX 56s w/o NSP - 8 Line/16 Digital/4 Analog, 4 port/6 hr. voicemail (most of that seems german to me.. it's verbatum from the quote)

- Norstar T-7316 phones/Norstar MICS Cabinet "with revision 7.0 software" + Norstar Callpilot 100 Voice mail

- Norstar MICS Cabinet Meridian Series Phones with Norstar MICS cabinet + Norstar Callpilot 100 Voice mail

- VODAVI STS Digital Cabinet (4X8X2) (phones are VODAVI, but not sure the models)

Our needs are basically to handle 14 phone lines and about 18 stations (some digital, some analog), with one main control/switchboard.

I'd really appreciate any advice you can offer - I'm pretty well versed with tech stuff, I've just never dealt with phone systems before.

Thanks!

Steve.

[email address removed at user's request]

PS: does anyone have any advice/experience on dealing with "Business Phones Direct"?

Steve, welcome to the board! You're going to get a variety of answers. All of the systems you have quotes for are good systems.

The most important thing will be the installing/servicing company. Check references!

If you're needing cabling between buildings at the camp, make sure the quotes are for proper outside plant cabling with lightning protection!

We sell Vodavi and Norstar. Either would work for this application. I am more partial to the Vodavi. Very reasonably priced and with a 5-year warranty.

I don't think you'll get much postitive response about "Business Phones Direct" or the like from this board. You may get a cheaper price for the equipment, but it won't be a better deal for you in the long run.

If our company sells you a system, we stand behind it. If you have a problem with a system from an internet company 2000 miles away it may be a problem. If one of our customers has a dead system, we rush over with a crash kit and restore service.

If you buy a system online and your system crashes, what do you do? You call the local guy who installed it and hope he can fit you in. (Remember, he's not obligated because it's not his warranty.) Next, the tech tells you it's a bad piece of hardware he then gives you a bill because it's not his problem. You call XYX internet sales, they have you talk to someone else who confirms the problem. Then, they have to get you a replacement.

Will they send an advance replacement? Overnight at no charge? Will you have to send the bad unit back first? Remember, you're down this whole time when the local guy would have probably restored service the same day. Just something to think about.

One question, why do you need 14 lines? That seems excessive for 18 phones at a camp.

Good luck!

Off the top the esi is undersized from what you list and so is the vodavi. I cant tell if the MICS is undersized but my guess is yes it is. I does not matter because they can all be revised to suit your needs, you just need to make sure the vendor knows what you requested.

All that aside the comparison is not if one is better than the other because they all have minor differences, it should be looked at from a feature point of view and do you like the look and feel of the phones also who the vendor is. You will hear from must of us that the vendor means everything and that is the truth. I would get refferals for these vendors and do some backround checking.

As for the features most systems have a basic set that the end user can understand and a set that you will never use. so while considering the system some questions to ask yourself are.

Do you need to be able to page, conference other people (if so how many) will there be advertising on hold? you get the idea. The reason for these questions is some systems take extra hardware to make these things function.

Just to prove my point about the vendor. I would have sold you a samsung for two reasons, one I like the product more than the ones you listed and two I can program and support is faster than the others.

Ask the vendor questions like how long have you been certified to install and sell your product and can you support that claim?. How long have you been in business and can I have a few of your refferals?. Who will be coming to install it and how long have they been doing it. Can I get a comfort letter from your supplier?.

Anyway you get the idea. I am sorry if this didnt answer your system questions but like I said earlier its not if a system is better than another but it is who your vendor is.

Thanks guys.

To answer the question about 14 lines for 18 phones:

The main reson for this is that we have a "phone room" that has 7 phone booths in it, for use when the campers call home (or to be transfered into when their parents call them)... then we have 7 additonal lines and 11 phones for "business" use.

Does that make sense?

I'm still looking for more quotes - if any of you are interested, please feel free to contact me by email at [email protected], and I'll give you more details on our needs.

Steve

Are all 14 of your lines on copper trunks? If so you could realize some cost savings on your network bill by changing to a PRI/T-1, that would help offset some of the cost of the new system in the long run.

Steve,
From what you are saying it seems like all of the systems are undersized. A couple of quesitions:

1. Are the camper phones attached to your system? IE: can extensions in the office call those phones?

2. If the answer to question #1 is "yes" then you need a system at least configured like this: 14x18x0 or 14x11x7 meaning 14 lines X 18 digital telephones X 0 analog telephones OR 14 Lines X 11 Digital telephones X 7 Analog telephones.

2B. If the answer to question #1 is "NO" then you only need a system configured at least 7x11x0 meaning 7 Lines X 11 digital telephones X 0 analog telephones.

Of course the numbers in the configuration will be different as the cards that enable the number of telephones and lines differ from system to system and are usually not in the count above. HOWEVER, if a system has less than those numbers then it is undersized.

The systems are all comparable to another. I would choose the Vodavi due to its 5 year warranty and the fact that it is rock solid, but that is not to say that the Norstar is not solid.

Steve

One more thing, the "M" or Meridian series telephones for the Norstar in your quote have been discontinued for a while now. If you can, try and get the T series as those are the new phones. The M series were great phones, but they are getting older evrey year.

As for business phones direct. Remember that a big cost of a new system is the professional installation. Even if you buy from Ebay or something it is likely going to cost the same in the end - or more. I have a customer that elected to not buy a new system from me. Instead he "got it from a friend" (who turned out to be Ebay). In the end after we installed it for him he ended up spending more than he would have with the new system. Parts of his system were dead after a week. In the end it does work fine for him, but all he got was a more expensive, discontinued, and just plain old system. Do yourself a favor and buy a new system properly installed.

Steve

Just to echo a few thoughts from those who have already posted:
1) For the configuration you have proposed, all of those systems are too small.
2) Find a good local vendor/technician (or 3 or 4) that can properly evaluate your situation and get you into a system that will actually fit your needs and be installed and configured properly.
3) It will almost certainly cost you MUCH more in the long run to buy a cheap and insufficient system and either try to install it yourself or hire the cheapest local guy to do so. Nine times out of ten, it will be improperly installed or improperly configured. You will then have to spend more money to get a competent professional in to fix the mess you have created by going cheap up front.
4) If you were trying to get the brakes on your camp's van fixed, would you buy the cheapest ones you could find on line, hope that they would fit, and pay some local guy whose only qualifications are that he is cheap to install them? I would certainly hope not.
Find a good local professional. Get references. Spend some time talking with them about your needs in a system. In the long run, you will be much better served. It may cost a few more dollars up front, but will certainly save money down the road.

I was assuming that he was just quoting a line item on the ESI & Vodavi. I know the STS base configuration is 4x8x2, so there may be more line items. Of course, I could be wrong.

Just adding some agreement here. All equipment manufacturers mentioned above produce quality products. Even tho I'm an ESI man I think the ACS may have some advantages. The seven telephone booths could be analog extensions using a line pool. Maybe you really don't need 14 lines after all. As far as the ESI quote that system quote is definately undersized. It is only capable of 8 lines before expansion. Put most of your enphasis on the people behind the product. Some of our best talents are advice, the products are just the tools we use to implement with.