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what demarcation type used in new homes?
#16739 09/10/07 01:17 PM
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Ozzy Offline OP
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I am new to the forums and this happens to be my first post.
I wanted to know demarcation point type jack is used in a residential house, that will probably never exceed 2 lines. To further explain:

I plan to wire 3 rooms, using cat 5e for phone. Each run will be will be terminated at the Demarc. What I used to see and don't anymore is a module that connects to phone company line in and joins up to 5 different runs. Is it still available at like graybar?

Questioning my reasoning, I don't see how a 66 or 110 block could be applicable, into tying 3 runs into 1 line.

I plan to have other jobs but would like to do it right and use the same type of materials. I have been cabling cat 5e for a long time but never ventured or focused on telephony wiring.

Please forgive me if my terminology is not accurate, still learning.

I do know better than joining a bunch of wires and electrical tape them though.


Best regard,

Ozzy
Re: what demarcation type used in new homes?
#16740 09/10/07 01:47 PM
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In general, the network interface device (NID) that is installed by the local telco is equipped with enough washers on the screws to permit up to four station wires to be connected per-line. Newer-design units have "flip" type connectors, again usually set up to allow up to four station cable runs to be connected. They are also usually equipped to expand to six lines by adding expansion modules, but that's the telco's responsibility, not yours.

You are over-killing your installation by running CAT5e for voice, but to each his own. The lines arrive to the premises via "CAT NOTHING" wiring, so using such cable is a waste of money. You really aren't hurting anything by running CAT5e except your wallet.


Ed Vaughn, MBSWWYPBX
Re: what demarcation type used in new homes?
#16741 09/10/07 01:49 PM
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Is this junction box what you're talking about?


Retired phone dude
Re: what demarcation type used in new homes?
#16742 09/10/07 02:00 PM
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Hmmm, where to start...

Ok, the first thing you need to do is forget anything you know about "CAT5" wiring, matter of fact forget CAT5 altogether. The "professionals" use CAT3 because it's easier to terminate and CAT5 is not needed.

Be sure to do a separate run from each jack location to a central location such as the basement. Be sure to use 6 position/ 4 pin USOC jacks, NOT data jacks. Terminate only the WH/BL and the WH/OR on each jack. Wrap the other two spare pairs back around the jacket.

NEVER run your jack runs out to the NID. If they ever are needed for a key system or something else they will be unuseable without major work. It is ALWAYS best to run one 4 pair (or 6 pair)out to the NID from an accessable distribution point within the house.

I don't see how a 66 or 110 block could be applicable, into tying 3 runs into 1 line.

Your problem is your computer background/network wiring experience is a handicap. A 66 block IS the way to go, matter of fact use two, they're cheap (mounted with 89 brackets please.) Use one split block (50 pair) to punch down all 4 pairs of all your runs. You can do 6 runs down the left side. Use bridging clips to join the halves. Mount another split 66 block to the right of it. The CO lines from the NID run (4 or 6 pairs) get punched down starting on the top left. Bridging clips again (you only need to do the first two rows if you only use 1 line).

Now with cross connect wire come off the right side of the CO block line 1 (WH/BLs) and daisy chain all the WH/BLs on the right side of the premises wiring block.

The reason for this is twofold- maximum flexibility if more lines are added or a key system is installed and it provides a means to isolate individual jack runs or a CO line for troubleshooting without disconnecting wiring.

-Hal


CALIFORNIA PROPOSITION 65 WARNING: Some comments made by me are known to the State of California to cause irreversible brain damage and serious mental disorders leading to confinement.
Re: what demarcation type used in new homes?
#16743 09/10/07 02:01 PM
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Is this junction box what you're talking about?


OOOH!!! I love those. The money I have made by replacing them with real terminal blocks has allowed me to purchase goods and services that as a young man I could only have dreamt about.

This is an example of a product that could have been a real help on smallish jobs, if only the designers had put a female modular jack at the end opposite the cord, so they could be daisy-chained.

I have seen 12 or more I/W's along with a third line and a few alarm wires, all "terminated" on these.


Arthur P. Bloom
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Re: what demarcation type used in new homes?
#16744 09/10/07 02:17 PM
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Hal, I must courteously disagree with your recommendations about Cat3 and the jack selection.

If you will refer to the ANSI/TIA/EIA-570 Residential Cabling Standard, they recommend that in Grade 2 houses, Cat5e is the minimum grade of wire, and 8P8C jacks are recommended. Cat3 and 6P jacks are made obsolete.

With that said, I run only Cat5e as a precaution against future needs of customers, who may need to upgrade an unused voice wire to a data wire. (It costs only a little more per foot) When all the jacks and wires are uniform, it makes changes from voice to data, and the reverse, a simple matter. I do admit that I occasionally use Cat3 jacks (6P4C) for voice so that there is less confusion as to what plugs into where.

I heartily agree with the rest of what you said about 66 blocks, et al; it echoes my daily mantra, as I go about correcting the work of "experts".


Arthur P. Bloom
"30 years of faithful service...15 years on hold"

Re: what demarcation type used in new homes?
#16745 09/10/07 02:22 PM
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If you will refer to the ANSI/TIA/EIA-570 Residential Cabling Standard...

To which none of us subscribe. ANSI/TIA/EIA-570 carries absolutely NO regulatory weight. It's right up there with BICSI, matter of fact BICSI recommendations are based on it.

How the hell can a CAT5 run outside to the NID be used for a puter?

-Hal


CALIFORNIA PROPOSITION 65 WARNING: Some comments made by me are known to the State of California to cause irreversible brain damage and serious mental disorders leading to confinement.
Re: what demarcation type used in new homes?
#16746 09/10/07 02:37 PM
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All the Cat5's that I install are home runs to an equipment closet or cabinet. From there, a feed is run to the NID.

The 66 blocks, data jack panels, modem, router, and UPS are all there. That accomplishes several things. All the wires can be used universally, and it keeps Telco's little fingers out of my work.

I never run a Cat5 or any wire "outside" and most NIDs around here are inside, for security reasons.


Arthur P. Bloom
"30 years of faithful service...15 years on hold"

Re: what demarcation type used in new homes?
#16747 09/10/07 02:54 PM
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I'm with Hal, use the right cable and jack for the application it's being used for. Even if you or the customer insist on CAT5 for the "future use" use the right jack to keep people from pluging the wrong piece of equipment into the phone jack.


Retired phone dude
Re: what demarcation type used in new homes?
#16748 09/10/07 03:04 PM
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Ozzy Offline OP
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All your comments were very helpful. As for the terminology I used, ex. demarc type, I guess I learned know that I am looking for a junction box.

I like hbiss comment on using 2 66-blocks, but I have never installed a 66 block so I wouldn't know. I have had to test a line using a butt set, to diagnose the problem by removing the bridge clip and seeing if it internal or not. I never though of daisy chaining. I will buy a couple of 66 blocks and practice.

I ounce bought a junction box that I though will be sufficient. It had 2 terminals for a pair from the NID and had 5 sets of 2 terminals that connected all the cable runs to that NID pair. The problem is I can't find these no more. but justbill nailed it.

I am trying to learn how to do it like a pro.

I don't care for one cable or the other, but I thought that standards are changing and leading to cat 5e. I would find it even easier to work with cat 3 plus a little less cost.


Best regard,

Ozzy
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