atcomsystems.ca/forum Forums General General Telephone & Systems Information can they restrict access to the demarc?

I have a few customers in one of the local malls and have never had any difficulty with mall management when I needed access to the MPOE or any other 'private' area - they even let us hang a rack in one of the elevator maintenance closets a few years back.

Yesterday I was out to extend a new DSL circuit that Verizon had delivered and tagged for me down at the MPOE. I had no trouble finding the right IDF and extending it to the suite but when I went to the mall office to get the keys to the phone room, I discovered that they had a new operations manager and he informed me that nobody but Verizon and one local contractor is allowed in the phone room.

Long story short, we had to pay that other contractor to come out and punch the xc for us.

Now drama & bs aside, I'm really curious: can they legally do that? I know it's their property but I can't help but wonder if there's some law or regulation that guarantees access to the demarc, whether it's in the PUC code or some telecom bill...

Anyone have some wisdom on this? I intend to write the mall management a letter and at least try to get added to their list of approved contractors but I've never run into this before - even sites that were hesitant could always be convinced that I'm not some yahoo who's going to knock other stuff down while I'm in there without a hassle.

Sad part is, the lock on that door is pretty easily manipulated and I couldn't help but feel that I'd have done better to just sneak in and out before anyone noticed.

I would have the customers contact the mall management about it then follow up with a meeting with the manger

It's called "Restraint Of Free Trade. I fought this one in PA and won. I don't know the exact procedure for any other state, but I'm sure it's similar. Here's what you must do:

1. Contact Mall management and request a copy of their "approved contractors" regulations. Make sure you copy and file away, safe, every piece of correspondence with them, no matter how trivial you may think it is. You'll see why later.

2. Make sure your insurance liability is equal to or better than what they demand.

3. Provide proof of insurance and any other information they list on their "approved contractors list."

4. Inform Mall management that you meet or exceed all their regulations and you are applying for approved status.

If they refuse to provide you the information, let the contact person at the management office know you are forwarding the entire content of all your correspondence with them to the PA Attorney General for a "Restraint of Free Trade" investigation. Make sure you contact the State's AG before calling the Mall management because you need to provide the contact person at the mall office the telephone number of the person you spoke with at the State's AG office.

I did this on a Friday and by the next Wednesday, I was on the "approved contractors" list. The Mall owners or management can not, by law, exclude any legal company from doing business in the Mall with their renters. They can, however, enforce their rules and regulations, no matter how insane they may be.

Rcaman

I had a similar experience a number of years ago. My customer leased a space in a building and contracted with me to sell them a new phone system. The equipment was still under warranty when the building owner decides that he wants to lease that space to another (probably higher paying)tenant. The owner picks up the tab for all the improvements and moving to a space on the floor below. He refuses to allow me to wire the new space as I had done with the old or move the system and reinstall it, all against the customer's wishes. He had a "preferred" vendor who could do it for less.

-Hal

Many years ago Building or Facilities Maintenance Agreements were the thing for an interconnect company or any other trade to sell. Then of course there's the "approved contractors" list where the requirements are so stringent as to preclude 99.9% of trade. You have an uphill battle on your hands so take arms against a sea of troubles, and by opposing end them. A little class never hurt! :thumb:

I thought that in most states, the service must be extended, by the LEC, to the customers suite, offices, rented space whatever. That's the way it is (or was, retired for 4 years now) in MO, KS, and NC.

Not even close to that here, John. We have office parks and shopping centers here where Verizon delivers phone service to the MPOE, which can often be thousands of feet from the customer's space. Some of these involve the service actually being delivered to a completely separate building.

Just last week, we had to run a feeder to a space in a warehouse complex that was almost 800 feet long. Fortunately, there was conduit, pull boxes and a string. Next week, we have to replace a feeder in a shopping center that has failed in the conduit underground. That one is only 200 feet.

One of the most memorable ones that I've encountered lately is for service to a building at a mall that used to be the auto center for JC Penney many years ago. The tenant in this building ordered phone service and Verizon delivered it to the service address for this building, which is the actual JC Penney store in the mall, a mere 1,900 feet away. Fortunately for us, Bell had installed a 100 pair OSP tie cable when the place was built in the 1970's that we are now allowed to use for circuit extensions. We got very, very lucky on that one.

Around here, where ever the MPOE is, that's where one must extend the circuit from to the customer's space which can be thousands of feet away. We have installed thousands of feet of fiber extending T-1, T-3 and other data circuits because Verizon's responsibility ends at the MPOE. Verizon has all but abandoned copper facility. If it's a bad pair and the tech can't find a good pair, usually, Verizon will try and talk the customer into FiOS. Finding a cable splicer around here is like finding buried treasure on the bottom of the sea floor.

There are approximately 40 shopping malls in our service area and we are on the approved contractor's list of them all. It's a nightmare for our insurance carrier on renewal of the insurance because all of those places we do work get the certificates. After the one or two run-ins with the Mall management, and getting on the approved contractors list of the largest of the management offices here, the rest were easy as a phone call requesting placement on the approved contractor's list. The lesson to be learned here is to stand up for your company and yourself. You have the credentials and you actually have the law on your side. Look them in the eye, don't back down and insist that you speak with someone with authority if you sense you are getting the runaround.

Back "in the day" it was easy. The LEC owned all the cable, terminals and MDF, IDF rooms. Occasionally, a contractor was called in to run a drop to a customer from an IDF....but rarely. Now, it's a free-for-all and, unless you don't care, it's worth it to get on the approved list.

Rcaman

MPOE used to mean Minimum Point Of Entry to the Sub's Premise. Now it means Anything from the original phone room to the pedestal?

It's not quite that bad here yet, John. I'm sure that we're heading in that direction. Phone lines to construction trailers are usually landed on a stake-mounted NID at the area of the property closest to an existing pedestal. If the facilities are aerial, they require a 6X6" pole to be provided at the corner of the property where they'll affix a NID. For now, we aren't permitted to enter a Verizon pedestal or terminal.

We're working with a new apartment complex where Verizon is bringing everything in via fiber to only one building and the property owner is responsible for tie conduits and cables between the other ten buildings. Unfortunately, that wasn't the plan when the complex was approved for construction five years ago. Each building has a set of 4" empty conduits stubbed out to the utility easement, but Verizon won't touch them now. They changed their policies, but didn't notify the developer of this. I wonder who will win this battle?

We've encouraged the property owner to work with the county to give each building a separate street address so that Verizon has the requirement under state tariff to provide individual facilities. This will likely take months or more, so we're running temporary drops over to the second building, which is ironically the first one to be occupied.