atcomsystems.ca/forum Forums TDM Business Telephone Systems Samsung Telephones & Systems OS 7100 CO line troubles HELP!!!!!!!!

The Bunnie is sad. You didn't listen to the Bunnie. You didn't go on site with four single line phones. You didn't short out line one when it was freaking out. You said you copied my suggestions but you didn't take them with you, did you? I sit here wearing out my thinking cap and you don't take the paper with you. Oh the Bunnie is so sad. <grin>

One suggestion I have, may seem odd but this did work for me a few years back on an older sammy model, can't remember exact details of the fault now but it was to do with ringing and the fix in the end was to have all 4 lines on the system the same polarity.

Sorry, I didn't mean to make you sad bunnie.
The test suggestions are on the desktop of my laptop...I swear I swear. but the stupid thing doesn't happen when I'm watching it. I'm taking the 4 SL's over there today and I'm hoping that I'll hear some crossover ringing. I'm leaving the 7100 out of it for awhile and just look for trouble on AT&T side.

Sammy Tech: that what I was thinking too, but I checked and corrected polarity last week.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CIT:Forgot to mention, just order the pads and be done with it: PADS..what are pads, I want some if it will get me out of this.

Sandmans regulators for co lines, He has several flavors and they all do the jobs they are made for. Sadly the CO does not have to tighten the tolerances on lines so you have to do it. Link one Link two

Thanks for the link, I only had a chance to swing by the site this morning because I had another project to do which felt like a reprieve.

I'm going to head out there in the morning and test the CO's at the customer interface outside the building because I still can't get access off business hours (company policy) to fiddle with it at the back board and if I fiddle during business hours and lines flip out then they flip out. I'm getting Phone guy PTSD.

Thanks again everybody,

Saturday update:

Telephone Line Diagnostic Table Customer_______________ Pg __ of __

Telephone / Line Number > 1 2 3 4

On-Hook DCV 24 to 50VDC 51.8 51.8 51.8 51.8

Off-Hook DCV 5 to 15VDC 6.5 6.5 6.5 6.5

Loop Current2 DCma 23 to 35ma 45.5 37.75 39.18 38.35

On-Hook ACV3 - T to R <.5VAC 0.005 0.774 0.773 0.004

On-Hook ACV3 - T to Grnd <.5VAC 1.760 1.773 1.754 2.200

On-Hook ACV3 - R to Grnd <.5VAC 0.005 0.005 0.005 0.006

AC Ring Voltage >75VACRMS 84v 84v 84v 84v

Open Loop going Off-Hook4 <20ms : I didn't do these last 4 test because frankly I didn't have a clue, plus I was freezing my butt off.

CPC Open Loop Duration4 500ms

Circuit Loss1 -db -5.5 to -8.5db

Using 1KC Tone MW phone number1:

Also on all 4 lines I picked up a local AM radio station with my butt set. Might be something??

The Loop Current DCma: I brought those down to the 23ma to 28ma range with resistors at the backboard last week but it didn't stop the phantom ringing on the 4 lines.

All test were performed at customer Demarc on the outside of building.

I also tested for: cross talk with toner: none found
cross ring with meter: none found
cross ring by connecting 4 cheap SL sets to each line and calling into each line to see if one of the other lines would even ring a little bit: ZILCH


Things to ponder: On hook ACV T to grnd is High according to the chart and AM radio station coming over the lines.

I'll give Mike Sandman a call and email him this on Monday and see what he thinks.

Note to Bunnie: when/if I put the 7100 back on the site I will split off the DT with the SL sets and the 7100 and see what happens

Try with the 7100 in parallel with single line phones and see if all four s/l phones ring as well as the all four lines on the 7100.

Try shorting out line one on the 7100 and leave the building.

Try putting the lines in using reverse order, 701=line 4, 702=line three, etc.

Do they understand that they are paying you for your time if this is proven to be a CO provider problem?

Hey Bunnie, thanks for hanging in there : )

I've been thinking about the 7100 in parallel with the single lines and I intend on trying that tomorrow BUT! what if attaching the SL sets prevent the trouble from happening and if so, why? The reason I bring this up is because I had the 7100 CO's in parallel with the compact CO's and it never blinked in 4+ hours of watching it, it didn't act up again until the 7100 had the 4 CO lines all to itself, unless of course I'm just having so much over the top freaking bad luck and timing with this.

I think what may be helpful is to compare the measurements the I took yesterday at the site and take the same measurements in parallel while it's still attached to the Compact to see if there is any significant drop in any of the readings.

I was also thinking of:
1) remounting the 7100 & feeding the 4 CO's directly into it. "nothing in Parallel"
2) keep the customer on the Compact keysets.
3) feed the 4 analog ports of the 7100 into the trunk ports of the Compact and program so trunk 701 rings Analog 209 rings etc.
4)program the 4 7100 analogs with immediate off hook select EX: 209 grabs 701 210 grabs 702 etc. So while the customer works off the Compact, hopefully they won't notice the difference and if need be I'd just need to swing the 4 CO's back into the Compact. That should also take the 7100's 2 DLM's out of the equation somewhat.
5)This involves a "Flux Capacitor" which I haven't fully worked out yet.

if it's a Provider Problem: In a perfect world I could say AaHA! see it's them, gimme money : ) but I think in reality especially since the Compact works fine there, the best I can hope for is to figure out the cause, eliminate it and then resign myself to the fact that I'm going to take a major butt whooping in labor time and just slink away...Oh and seek mental health therapy.

Another update because I have an unhealthy obsession to figure this out an be done with it.

I brought the 7100 back on Thursday and had it on the bench with 2 real CO lines plugged into it all weekend and the alarm logs are showing nothing, except when I tried to hose it up by tying the rings together with a resistor.

I took the same readings on my lines today as I took at the site and other than the loop current ma readings and the on-hook DC: Mine- 45 site-51.8 everything else was pretty much the same even the AC T to grnd were around 1.7xx. The ONLY big difference was that I could not pick up any AM radio stations no matter how many ways that I moved my arms around. "picture that in your head"

So whoever is still reading this war and peace size thread the question is:

Any thoughts on the AM radio coming over ALL the CO lines at the site. I did a mapquest from station to site and they run along RR tracks 5 miles apart and I'm guessing the aerial cable runs the same route.

The PURPOSE of the s/l sets is to see if ALL of them ring when the craziness starts or if only line one rings on both the 7100 and the s/l set. It is a TEST.

The PURPOSE of shorting out line one is a test to see if that one line causes the problem.

The PURPOSE of putting the lines in reverse order is to see if it is the FIRST line position on the 7100 that is causing trouble.

If you have a radio station coming in on dial tones, then GROUND every wire that is not being used for dial tone on the protector. Ground any unused pairs on the cable from the protector to the KSU.

Radio stations broadcast from towers and Mike Sandman has chokes you can use if GROUNDING all spare pairs does not work adequately.

Get a sleeping bag and don't come home until you have done all the tests for several hours.