atcomsystems.ca/forum Forums Wiring - Telecom Carriers - Trunks & Services Cabling Telephones Systems Wiring "Convenience" block from MPOE - your opinion requested

I will be pulling 12 strands of singlemode fiber, a CAT3 50 pair, and (HERE IS THE QUESTION), probably PowerSum CAT5 25-pair (2) from the server room on the 21st floor of a high rise into the MPOE which is in the parking structure. It is for a "convenience" block for the customer who wants the service providers to use the new cable for their data circuits instead of the house riser cable. I have seen this issue debated here many times. If the PowerSum is going to be for several T-1 lines, and the NIU's and channel banks are in the MPOE, is there a real benefit to CAT5 over CAT 3? And why or why not? The customer wants identical patch panels on both ends, and then we will just connect to his routers in the server room. Thanks in advance.

There is no benefit of Cat-5 over Cat-3 for extending T1. In fact, for that distance (and you should check to be sure that you are not over distance), it would be beter to separate the Transmits from the Receives, or run individual shielded "T1" cable for each circuit.

It's a great "form-factor" to have matching patch-panels at each end; a T1 patches from the NIU to a port at the MPOE, and shows up on the matching port in the server room. BUT, since T1 uses 1/2 and 4/5, half of every 4-pair Cat-5 bundle is unused.

Did the customer spec. what is to be pulled? That may settle the issue as to what you install, but leave a pull string for future!!

Absolutely, what TouchToneTommy said... for any distance, Cat5, would not be better.

Cat5 is specifically made for faster speeds, over shorter distances.

If they absolutely didn't want to purchase T-1 spec cable (individually shielded Tx & Rx), then the best answer is to separate the Tx & Rx... all Tx on one feeder and all Rx on another, but that is doing it the wrong way.

You should just tell the customer, if the want it done... they will have it done right the first time. The cost savings will be recouped in avoiding multiple future service calls.

For reference, what is the distance (ballpark)?

Distance from 21st floor to the MPOE should be between 350 - 450 feet. I appreciate your comments gentlemen. I am going to forward these comments to my customer. I guess there is no one PRO CAT5 here for the T-1 circuits?

I don't think there is anyone here that is pro CAT5 and above for anything other than ethernet.

-Hal

I wouldn't put T-1 on Cat 5 for anything over 50'. And I don't think THAT'S a good idea. Two Cat 2 or Cat 3 shielded cables - one for xmits, and one for receives. Or better yet, T-1 transport cable.


Sam

21 story pull, that's something I have yet to do. How would you approach it? Surely there would have to be risers all the way up, right? There never is a pull rope left in those things so how would you fish the distance? Would you break it up say to 5 floors, pull out the full length, coil it up and then repeat for the next 5 floors and so on? I would think the friction possibilities would make a single pull very hard to do without stretching the cable.

Not that I'm anti-cat5 but the t-1 travels umpteen miles on cat0 outside plant cable to get to you. Not to mention t1 is 1.5 meg and cat3 is rated for 10 meg. Look at the price of cat3 50 pair to 50 pair cat5. Then ask the customer if that price is worth about zero benefit.

PMCook -

I've pulled longer pulls than 21 stories.

First, you always pull up, instead of dropping down. Seems counterintuitive, but it's not.

Second, get the route set up and pull a rope through it, installing pulleys and sheaves as required.

Third, if it's a real heavy pull, don't pull it by hand, use a greenlee cable puller. It pulls very slowly and very steadily so there's little, if no stretching.

Fourth, have enough people along the route to keep an eye on the run, make sure it's going smoothly and grease it as required. Walkie Talkies are a must.

Fifth, after the cable is pulled in, support it every couple of floors. There are a variety of methods available for that depending on the cable type, distance and environment.

Sixth, when all is done bring everyone across the street to the saloon and buy the first round or three.

Sam

I have pulled from the 43rd floor (penthouse) in 2029 Avenue of the Stars in Century City, to the MPOE which is two levels into the parking garage for another law firm. I remember that one very well. We actually pulled down from the top, and had many walkie-talkies, secured the cable every couple of floors and did it very, very, slowly. You do not want that cable coming down or slipping out. Pulling up didn't make sense. We didn't need pulleys, we had several people. It was a PowerSum 25-pair and CAT3 50-pair if I recall. The risers in these high-rises are usually not as clean as you would think. Also, many building management companies now employ "riser management" companies (Summit Riser in L.A.) to tend to their closets. The Century City complex had one of the biggest MPOEs I have ever seen.