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#470352 04/07/05 02:49 PM
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https://www.sipcenter.com/sip.nsf/html/What+Is+SIP+Introduction

Ignore SIP at your own perril!

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#470353 04/07/05 04:02 PM
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Thanks, good info...keep em coming!

#470354 04/07/05 04:47 PM
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try Freeworlddialup using the Xlite softphone. it's SIP. www.freeworlddialup.com

#470355 04/08/05 01:46 AM
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Session Initiated Protocal = SIP. A loose standard that will be VOIP future IMHO. Right now I THINK there are 16 basic functions that are required to be SIP I call them the SIP 16. These are going to be the new "single" line phones of the future.

#470356 04/08/05 04:01 AM
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SIP will reside in your cell phone, your PC (In XP ALREADY), in your busines phone system, in your cable box, in your home security system, in you video security system, in your home automation system. SIP is not a telephoney standard. It is a multi-media standard that is a disruptive technology. If you are a small interconnect, get to know SIP now. It will be the technology that brings down the price of IP phone systems, to the level of standard digital systems. IT IS NOT READY FOR PRIME TIME. That is the good news. Why? because it buys you some time. If you have not gotten your feet wet with IP, learn SIP first. What's wrong with it right now? Not that many features, sound quality can be an issue, off site SIP stations need VPN tunnels on most systems I've hear of, reliability. However, system software upgrades will show up within weeks of each other in some cases to fix bugs and add features. Other major features will include multiline business phones with DSS/BLF and line appearances, unified messaging, web based user interface for phone programming, collaberative work group tools, software based video PC phones (softphones).

Here's a thought "Everything that can be invented has been invented."
Charles Duell, Dir. US Patent Office, 1899

Little guys ! Don't Miss the Boat.

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#470357 04/08/05 04:46 AM
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It's not a standard is the biggest problem Mark. It has major hurdles to climb before prime time. VOIP is like anything else...free right now till good ol Uncle sam starts making people pay for bandwidth. The tech is monitoring is there. Also consider this, SIP offers no encryption so you may be easilly spied upon. Microsoft is pushing the hell outa SIP right now. Ready for another non-ending software upgrade....just wait and see this monster.

#470358 04/08/05 11:25 AM
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by MARK3906:
https://www.sipcenter.com/sip.nsf/html/What+Is+SIP+Introduction

</font>


Mark what an excellent site you have found for the forum !! Everyone interested or who has questions should peruse the entire link and study it. What is great about this site is that everything is in layman terms and can be digested very easily. The coverage of VoIp and the many facets thereof defining H.323 protocols to SIP is the finest I've seen yet. Knowing the basics and functionality makes deployment and involvement so much easier and less intimidating than it seems. Learning all the acronymns is something that comes with continued involvement and studying. The mods for this forum don't know everything and don't have all the answers, but will try to provide the most correct and accurate responses to all inquiries.

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HARLEYMAN

#470359 04/08/05 11:28 AM
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Harleyman, I'm thinking of asking for a pay raise.

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#470360 04/08/05 11:33 AM
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Coral Tech:
It's not a standard is the biggest problem Mark. It has major hurdles to climb before prime time. VOIP is like anything else...free right now till good ol Uncle sam starts making people pay for bandwidth. The tech is monitoring is there. Also consider this, SIP offers no encryption so you may be easilly spied upon. Microsoft is pushing the hell outa SIP right now. Ready for another non-ending software upgrade....just wait and see this monster.</font>

Coral Tech SIP is a standard and has become the one of choice for Voice over Internet Protocol (VoIP). SIP is not as complex as H.323 protocol because it is an application that does require registration on a SIP server. The reason for every manufacturer, that I'm aware of, requiring VPN is for the security and to prevent spying upon. SIP is an application that uses ASCII which could be intervened or intercepted if not conducted within a secure enviornment. VoIP and SIP won't be regulated, but the whole internet cloud will soon have its price and taxation.

#470361 04/08/05 11:38 AM
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by MARK3906:
Harleyman, I'm thinking of asking for a pay raise.

</font>


Go ahead and submit for your pay raise. Just make sure it goes through the chain of command and all documentation includes justification, to include 5 year projections for profit and loss. Your submission should also include color charts for easy interpretation and a return address for rejection. If you haven't had your counseling sessions yet for dealing with rejection, I suggest you get those out of the way first.

#470362 04/08/05 11:42 AM
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No S##t.

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For anyone just getting into VOIP as I am, this is what I understand so far. SIP is only part of a host of protocols that work together. You got to start learning from a point of reference. So as you investigate SIP, you will also see MCGP, UDP, RTP, RTCP, SDP, . . . . So it's not all you need to understand. SIP is responsible for the call setup (Session initiation) Once the session (call) is set up, SIP's job is done until you call upon it again (make another request for a service). To give you a real life example - remember that SIP to SIP calls are switchless. In my first experience with my own SIP equipment I was able to make a call from one Comdial EP200 softphones to another EP200 soft phones and then walk over and turn off my MP5000 switch. My call was still connected. If I made another request (try to transfer the call) the call was terminated. Now if I made a call from an EP200 out through a gateway in the switch to the outside world or a digital set in the switch, the call was terminated if I turn off the MP5000. So my approach to this is to see what happens here when I do that there.

Print this one and take it to the bath room for reading material.


https://www.sipcenter.com/sip.nsf/h...rge d_Communications_With_SIP_lb2343.pdf

As for SIP security, read this one.

https://www.sipcenter.com/sip.nsf/html/Session+Initiation+Protocol+and+Security


[This message has been edited by MARK3906 (edited April 08, 2005).]

[This message has been edited by MARK3906 (edited April 08, 2005).]

#470363 04/09/05 09:26 AM
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Coral:
You are correct that SIP does not provide encryption with one exception. Zultys is a SIP IP-PBX that provides 128 bit encryption. This hurdle is already being overcome.


ElectSys Tech LLC
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Allworx, Sangoma, FreePBX
Telephone & computer systems in the Jefferson City, Columbia MO area.
#470364 04/09/05 10:04 AM
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But, once again that is proprietary and not a standard, thus not SIP. When SIP FINIALLY gets a true standard we will see. Right now it's simply 16 basic features that are generally considered the standard.



[This message has been edited by Coral Tech (edited April 09, 2005).]

#470365 04/09/05 11:16 AM
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Coral: I would like to think that people could freely present some of the things they learn along the way as we all embark on this journey of IP telephony without being afraid that YOU are going to come along an correct them. You can pick this thing to death if you want to. Basically what you are acomplishing is aleinating yourself from a group of people who could collectively learn something from each other. The only real thing I have learned from you so far is that you're going to have the last word.

aweaver: Fill me in. I don't care if Zultys added a little piece of propriatary brilliance in to get to their product to where they want it to be. But you might have to talk REAL LOUD so I can hear you.

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#470366 04/09/05 01:05 PM
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Alrighty then let me wade in on this. SIP is a standard ratified by the IETF. It is in it's infancy. Call it phase one. So what if there are only 16 features in phase one. Coral Tech - you are either coming across as one who believes that SIP sucks or you are playing Devil"s advocate..which is it? I have SIP working in my office and evaluate it based on feature set releases. What platform has been released with the full working complement of features? Don't let your short field of vision believe that your platform is the only working one. I have been in this business since 1976 and if I cut off both hands I still could count the number of Tadiran installs I come across. I'm in the ninth largest metropolitan area in the US and encountered zero. That being said I am not impressed with the current versions of VOIP or SIP. I only see value in VOIP tying offices or teleworkers together. Still evolving.. too soon to call. Remember fiber to the desk top, CTI (you'll never sell another phone as PCs will replace them), PC based VOIP gateways..all of them were more bust than balls. This bickering is like my brother can beat up your brother shit. I'll press forward with SIP and see what it grows into. Right now I'll have another SIP of cold beer. LOL.

[This message has been edited by RATHER BE FISHING (edited April 09, 2005).]


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#470367 04/09/05 02:25 PM
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#470368 04/09/05 02:39 PM
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Nice documents. Crap implementation. I can show many Fortune 500 deinstalls due to lack of perceived value. I ran across a car dealership last week who lamented that when multiple calls ring in that they can't proceed to the second and third call until the first call is transferred. If its parked or on hold they can't get to sucessive calls. Whew thats innovation.


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#470369 04/09/05 02:58 PM
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CISCO's approach here now is to get a small presence started with a large organization and very slowly bring more phones on line within the organization. The large installs don't get the attention around here like they use to, unless they are the one's they had and then lost at the contract signing.

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#470370 04/10/05 03:45 AM
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Mark, I am simply pointing out what you are calling SIP is not true SIP. I don't want to rain on you parade but since we are in this industry we need to be precise in calling something what it is. If you want to call it a SIP compliant system, with added features..thats great. When and if someone sits down and makes SIP a functioning standard written in stone. I am not here to have the last word by any means.

I cannot tell you how many times I have had to go in after Cisco and explain the customer about the Cisco system to the customer. Then have that customer go back and ask the cisco salesperson what I told them to ask them and if they said they could do it to get it in writing...needless to say they wouldn't. Accuracy, we have to watch what we are selling AND be precise to what is going on.

#470371 04/10/05 03:58 AM
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Rather, thats the way the system works. You can't take a second call. The other thing that's funny if you don't ask about MOH and buy a system be ready for that sticker shocker. People that have the previous AVVID systems...well lets say that ready the dumpster because to use any of the new tech you have to do a forklift. Remember guys, the MIS people are not stupid, they just need to be educated. It's easy to go into a business that gives the IT guy all the responsibilty and start talking his lingo IP and this and that. You have to make him think about more than that, and THAT is why we have to show and explain things so that he doesn't feel like the phone system is this alien antiquated piece of equipment. I have meeting go for more than 2 hours just explaining the the differences of IP and TDM. Trust me, I deploy a TON of IP in the field but where and when it makes sense.

#470372 04/10/05 07:48 AM
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Coral Tech:
Mark, I am simply pointing out what you are calling SIP is not true SIP. I don't want to rain on you parade but since we are in this industry we need to be precise in calling something what it is.

</font>

Coral what the hell are you talking about?? SIP is Session Intiatation Protocol and is an application and is a standard!! For someone who supposedly knows so much, why didn't you know on a previous post that 7.11 and 7.29 CODECS were compressed? For all the tons of IP you are deploying apparently it is now visible you are putting in IP but don't understand it !!

#470373 04/10/05 08:16 AM
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SIP has 16 basic features as of now. G7.11 is not compressed (or more accurately very little) from what I understand and G7.11 allows for faxing and modems over a controlled VOIP network. G7.29 is (and allows for jitter and delay better than g7.11)..and stated as such. Tell me where SIP is deployed on several diffent switches and all the features are the same? SIP is an application and not a protocol...interesting. BTW read your SIP link on this. VOIP doesn't mean SIP, althought SIP means VOIP amazing I have to point this out to someone that knows this much.

[This message has been edited by Coral Tech (edited April 10, 2005).]

#470374 04/10/05 08:31 AM
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CORAL TECH = last word.

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#470375 04/10/05 08:36 AM
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Nope, this is the last word Mark. I'm telling you Punch put a really good link and take the time to read it and you will see what I am saying about standards emerging from a ground level. Sorry it's in another thread under VOIP.


[This message has been edited by Coral Tech (edited April 10, 2005).]

#470376 04/10/05 08:43 AM
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Coral Tech:
But, once again that is proprietary and not a standard, thus not SIP. When SIP FINIALLY gets a true standard we will see. Right now it's simply 16 basic features that are generally considered the standard.

[This message has been edited by Coral Tech (edited April 09, 2005).]
</font>


B...S... Coral!!! You go and try to convince the IETF of your proclaimation. In the same analogy you are trying to convince everyone in this forum that computer networking is not a standard because it involves the use of routers, hubs, switches, firewalls, CAT5 cables, software applications, etc, etc........ Zultys has done the encryption within their product to provide security because SIP is an ASCII text based application that does not utilize the OSI layer model the same as VoIP. Comdial has their security built within the SIP Server Blade and protects the endpoints from hacking. SIP is a very vulnerable STANDARD that does need additional hardware/software. Now I would like for you to explain to this forum in 1000 words or less why you say why our SIP is not true SIP and what you consider true SIP. Please provide references also.

#470377 04/10/05 08:56 AM
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LOL..ok.

SIP Extensions and Interoperability: Has a Good Idea Gone Bad?
The Session Initiation Protocol (SIP) was well on its way to becoming the dominant call control protocol for voice, but a funny thing happened on the way to the future: Since the SIP standards are so easy to extend, many vendors are creating proprietary SIP extensions. This now means that some SIP implementations won't interoperate at anything other than the most basic levels. This session will analyze why vendors have decided to create these proprietary extensions, and will report on what is being done to
address this problem. The session will attempt to figure out if the early promise of SIP can be realized.

Written: NGN2004 conference

#470378 04/10/05 09:00 AM
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and..

https://www.sipcenter.com/sip.nsf/h...n+A+Dynam ic+And+Competitive+Marketplace

Important spot...
Since SIP is still an evolving protocol there is intensive standardization work done at the IETF in developing and updating SIP-related drafts. For example in 2002 there were 210 distinct SIP working group Internet drafts, 83 SIPPING working group drafts, and 34 SIMPLE working group drafts (not counting version changes - 00, 01….). This intensive standardization work, which is necessary in order for SIP to provide the functionality expected, makes it tedious for one to follow the evolution of the protocol.



[This message has been edited by Coral Tech (edited April 10, 2005).]

#470379 04/10/05 09:01 AM
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#470380 04/10/05 09:06 AM
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Punch wrote:

"B...S... Coral!!! You go and try to convince the IETF of your proclaimation. In the same analogy you are trying to convince everyone in this forum that computer networking is not a standard because it involves the use of routers, hubs, switches, firewalls, CAT5 cables, software applications, etc, etc........ "


Oh, and BTW not all computer networking is the same. Amazing.....

#470381 04/10/05 10:04 AM
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Coral: Punch Down, Rather Be Fishing and I became moderators of this forum, not because we are total experts in this field but because we think we can help promote a dialog that is positive and encourage individuals with little or no experience to get started some where some how before too much more time passes. I personally intended to try to get some industry insiders from various manufactures to join and give their feedback as well. I made a couple of posts, including this one and you have chosen to pick everyone to death on every issue. Is is a standard? Is it not a standard? Is is a protocol? Is it not a protocol? Is it true SIP? Is it some bastard hybrid? Here is my final question and then I'm through with this one. How do you expect anyone to want to participate in the VOIP forum, including nubies and especially industry experts, if you're going to challange every post and intemidate other board members? I mean, I've learned nothing from you on this. You're wearing out your welcome weather you realize it or not. Your positive input is encouraged as is would be with any other member, but this is discouraging considering this forum just started recently.

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#470382 04/10/05 10:11 AM
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This conversation is going nowhere and is over.

#470383 04/10/05 10:13 AM
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Guys, seriously. I am not here to be an ahole. Life is too short to do that. If you think I have been overbearing I apologize. If you want simply delete my posts and move on go ahead. I won't bother you anymore. Good day gents.

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