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ictelco Offline OP
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This pertains to dsl so it may be the wrong category, but the central office guys may know the answer. In our area, Qwest has recently "rolled out" their new fiber optic dsl: up to 20meg down and 896k up. For years the existing copper dsl service has worked fine with the loop length limitation. Now with their "fiber" service, they seem to be creating problems for alot of the older copper dsl customers. Problems like 136k down and 210k up, when it used to be much more. I have heard from clec techs and ilec techs that the new fiber service may induce interference on the copper dsl. I have also been told from Qwest "that they acknowledge the problem,but don't know how to fix it". Needless to say, alot of customers who were happy with their existing service are now forced to upgrade to the new fiber service, oh by the way for an additional cost........
Anyone ever heard of this situation, a solution, or is this a marketing ploy that seems a little underhanded.
I also heard that dial tone is a tariffed product, regulated, and has to comply with certain standards, but dsl is data which is not tariffed, and therefore......what you see is what you get!!
Thanks for any input.

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Random observations:

Most telcos are crooks.

Most telcos are incompetent.

Induction does not occur in optical-fiber transmission. It carries no electricity.


Arthur P. Bloom
"30 years of faithful service...15 years on hold"

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I’m not familiar on how Qwest has been building out their outside plant for this, so I don’t know anything specifically about this issue…. But I do want to point out, it’s true optical signal creates no electrical noise but conversions from fiber to electrical or electrical to fiber can be pretty noisy.


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Bryan
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Cars -n- Guitars Racin' (retired racer Oct.'07)
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Quote
Originally posted by Arthur P. Bloom:
Random observations:

Most telcos are crooks.

Most telcos are incompetent.

Induction does not occur in optical-fiber transmission. It carries no electricity.
First instructional session in Teleco 101; “Learning to rip-off customers.” - Little incentive pins are given away upon completion of the course that say, “I can defraud granny better than you!” ... “The Art of Kitten Kicking” is the next class but I shouldn’t get off topic here.

New employees are beaten about the head daily until we reach a sufficient amount of brain damage to be qualified for our respective positions.

Random observations about people in general: Most individuals that spout-off often “that everybody else is stupid,” or predominately gravitate towards that mentality, often have more of a problem on the transmit side than they to on the receive side.


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Bryan
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ictelco Offline OP
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Those are great replies...Definitely made my day...

Now for my education- copper based dsl would be a dedicated pair back to the co where it connects to a dslam prior to connecting to the 5ess? Fiber would be a fiber backbone to a remote dslam and then copper to the premise? So the only common facilities would be the drop to the building? And that is where the induction would occur? Or is the induction thing a plateful of bull to confuse the customer?

An ilec has said they weren't interested in reselling the fiber stuff because they had heard there was so much trouble with it in another market....

Maybe I should take another stupid pill and a shot so I could understand and carry on a conversation with the tech.

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There a lot of different ways the xDSL backbone can be configured.

You’ve descried the copper based topology okay enough.


Now for the fiber:

It can be used from C.O. to remote terminal. Very common thing now with Next Gen pair-gain systems.

From C.O. to remote DSLAM (fiber to the neighborhood or node)

Fiber to the curb… This goes from a remote (or remote DSLAM) to a module at the retrofitted “access point” (aka, cross-box). The drop would be the only copper.

Also Fiber from the C.O. to the end-user (aka fiber to the premise)


Only a guess ‘cause I don’t know what Qwest is using in their area but in a fiber to the curb scenario, there could be some issues such as this out there. … But I would assume that would be very localized.

I’d also WOULD be wary of being served a plate full of bull.... Not necessarily in order to intentionally confuse a customer but the tech may not fully understand the bigger picture himself.


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Bryan
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Are you actually in Iowa City?

I've got too much experience with this. The signal levels are much higher for the remote DSLAM's vs the CO DSLAM's and it's causing a lot of problems for independent ISP's using Qwest DSL services. Qwest's solution for most has been 'switch back to Qwest' but we are making them clean up the problems for customers of ours on our own DSLAM's.

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ictelco Offline OP
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djweis I've been fighting the battle here in Iowa City for 28 years!

Just recently we've noticed customers of Qwest as well as clecs, with this similar problem.. Most of the time it appears that they are customers that are further from the co than others. Coralville is pushing 15,000+ feet from the co, and they are the first to experience this. And exactly as you said, Qwest upgrades their own customers indicating this is the best solution, even though it is more money after the initial 4 month promo rate.
I'm just trying to understand what the underlying cause is and I don't think that Qwest seems to know what is causing the problem.....I had heard also there fiber dsl was "flakey" and the market that I had heard that had the problem was DesMoines!
What are you making them do to "clean up" the problem?
Thanks, and nice to meet a fellow Iowan here.

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You are pretty much boned on the retail 'DSL' product, unless the customer wants a much lower speed. They are putting FTTN remotes in where we could get 3-5 megs on our CO based DSLAM's and killing the signal. It has to do with power disparity, the remotes just put out so much stronger signal and by the time we make it 5-10kft it can't overcome one that's starting at the SAI. We can force Qwest to clean things up and get our signal back to where we started but it's painful and irritates us and our customers.


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