atcomsystems.ca/forum Forums Other TDM Phone Systems 1A2 and Comkey Telephones & Systems A little bit of insight on 1A2 for the "younguns"

To give you younger folks an idea of the knowledge, time, and labor involved with working on 1A2 equipment here is something to think about. It was very common for it to take most of the morning to install two telephones on an existing system to be connected to existing CO lines. This was not because we were lazy either.

To install two 5 line telephones ( 2564/5 sets ) you had to run two 25-pair cables and terminate them on existing 66 blocks or install new blocks if the spares had been used.
At least 1.5 hours depending upon the length of the cables.

Then you had to terminate a 25-pair Amphenol connector on the telephone end of each cable. 5 Minutes each if you were experienced enough and had a nice lunch date planned with the cute little civilian woman from building 13, otherwise about 15 minutes each. Why hurry? LoL

Then you had to locate the desired CO lines and figure out the best way to include the new phones into the daisy chain WITHOUT killing service to existing telephones for any length of time if possible. Depending upon how many telephones the line was connected to this could be a 2 minute task or up to 30 minutes.
This was repeated for each line.

Next you had to figure how to make the desired lines, ( and only the desired lines ) to ring on the telephones. This also could be a 5 minute task or up to 30 minutes or longer. And in some cases it was simply impossible to set it up precisely the way the customer wanted because of the common audible wiring. In those cases you got it as close as possible. This was usually not a problem for me as an installer because the surveyor had explained this to the customer in advance.

Finally, each line had to be tested at each phone, the phones labeled, the workorder signed, and the equipment room cleaned and secured.

Keep in mind that in the above scenario all of the lines were already installed on the system.
If new lines were to be installed it would definitely mean returning after lunch.
In that case you would have to test pairs to the building with the CO ( inside plant ) test board, install a new line card ( 400D ) in the 584 panel if there was an available slot, then connect the CO line to the telephones.

But with all of the headaches and effort…. It was so nice at the end of the day to know you earned your every bit of your pay.

Bobby, you sound like an old gov't employee.

Why go all the way to Bldg 13 to get that lunch date --- the TOC for the building used to always be the new "girl" and was always the one right out of school and young, good looking, and was always impressed with the way a phone guy could get things done.

Yep, a day in the life of a 1A2 installer --- walls of panels floor to 14 foot ceiling, 30 - 40 feet long closet, need a step ladder to run jumpers. The install was always were there are no pairs left, have to run new feeders, add extenders so the lamps and buzzers would work, yeah, a real fun day.

Oh, yes, a stroll down memory lane -----

KLD

LoL Yep,I was in the Air Force 4 years.

How about the 2833 model phones with 50 pr. to each, connected to 580 ksu's. I still have bulb puller, file for contacts and some of those strange fuses around here.

You are so right jacktel! I just didn't want to scare anyone off. I remember running 75 and 100 pair cables for a single telephone back then.

I am a younger tech and never got to work on a 1A2 system, kind of wish I did, seems like the experince you pick up is priceless..I know their are a few pictures already on the board but if anyone has some shots of a full closet I would love to see them..running 100 pair for a single line...WOW!

Single set anthonyh, Call Directors w/busy lamp field and button and buzzers, lots of wiring, you'd stack the button pads next to the phone. They attached to the set on a mounting bracket. Also had to wire the other sets for the busy lamps by putting diodes in them to make the field work. Boy did the Government like buttons and buzzers, even after dial up intercom had been out for a long time.

The wire is still in the buildings, mostly just cut to bundles above newer systems installed later.Was in old bank last month and looking at floorplan for bid of new cable v&d, the new tenent's IT guy was looking at 75 pr. cable heads with rj11 jacks attached via a splice. We went into basement and EQ. was still there. This not unusual they just put newer system on different wall and ran jumpers to old terminal blocks on original eq. side to get to old cables.

anthonyh, I did not take any pictures of the equipment rooms back then because of security reasons. But I will try to locate some for you on the net to give you an example.

Anthonyh, The 1a2 systems depending on size were ok, but just imagine someone spilling a coke into a phone on the third floor of a large building and knocking out assorted lines on every floor. You as tech had to find and isolate it. Today you could drop phone in bucket of water and maybe lose port on system.PS those assorted lines would be knocked out on every phone in building

sounds like it was a fun ride guys

It was a fun ride. I haven't been able to locate any pics on the net. I thought I had seen some on Mike Sandman's web page but I can't find them now.
Maybe some of the other folks will share some of theirs.

Grasshoppers,Duckbills, laceing cord,buglight and etc.
Hours and hours of punching cables.
Don't miss it .

I have a lot of respect for you guys who had to work on those systems. Nowadays it's one pair and program it all by computer. You guys really had to know everything!!

Ah yes, taking a schematic diagram and tester and tracing out through hundreds of relays to find a dirty contact so the lamp would work. Adjusting and tweaking those polar relays. Tying in and replacing glass on open wire when it's 30 below. Good old days? I'll take the heat and air-conditioning and sitting down to program a system. Some day Jeff someone will say to you. You actually had to wire those things? Boy you had to know everything.

Yep
We use to install NEC XBAR PBX'S with 1A2 for the end user sets . So not only did we have to know how the maechanical xbar operated but also how to wire out and repair a 584c panel ! We also installed the Stromberg XREEDS .Those where the good ole days . Now I hardley ever use a punch tool and a wire wrap tool once in a blue moon ! I now just use our Enterprise Manager software and access our Mitels via ip address from my desk . I did work in the field from 1972 thru 1998 . So yes I do have BAD KNEES !

I took the pictures today:

https://pages.sbcglobal.net/torrance1/21241_2nd_floor_KTS.htm

When we installed the call center, somewhere around 1988-1990, we went in with ISDN for the workers and KTS for management -- which is why it is such a small KTS. The building has been vacated and I am removing the telecomm equipment.

There are still a few of the know everything guys around. Over on Avalon Island there are just two techs that take care of everything from the incoming carriers, the switch, the frame, outside plant, all the way to the telephone jacks in the houses. They rarely need to have outside help.

Nice picture Mike. I always have and do like the colored backboards. You know what's where the minute you walk in. That and proper labeling made trouble shooting a lot easier.

That was a clean looking install Mike.
Bill, we carried an ink eraser and a sharpie and labeled everything on the blocks as we worked. It was time consuming but it paid off later.

Same here. When I was installing for Telco, had a buddy you could write on those blocks so neat it looked like a professional print job. Mine you can usually make out, if you squint real hard. :rolleyes:

Too many compliments. Try: https://www.dslretorts.com/Paladin/images/UglyLAN.jpg

You can see part of the house cable on the left side of the picture. Beans... 50-pin amp connector hanging....

I installed my first LAN in there somewhen around '94. They said EOTP was designed to go over existing voice wire, so I did. The picture is actually of later upgrades, but even so you can see where I split a four-pair into two ethernet connections.

Thanks for the photo's Mike

Now you come out with the "down and dirty" photo's. LoL
But I'll bet you that just about every one of us have been a little guilty of something just like it.

That was not on the same system was it Mike?

Wow, that looks awfully familiar. Like most closets around here. And they wonder why the phone system "doesn't work" or "the computers are down". Hmm..

There's your sign.

wow. just wow. what a complete 360 from the first pic to the second
nice work!!

Once on a bet we installed a 16c rack apparatus with 2 full 584c panels upside down. This was in an Air Force Command building in a stairwell where you had to take the cover off to realize everything was upside down. You could see techs laughing at it as the cables came out the top and over to 66 blocks instead of out the bottom.

That's no problem. Just plug the interrrupter in backwards and the line cards upside-down and it works fine. Oh, and don't forget to connect your ground to the hot side of the power supply to keep things consistent.

I have a better idea. Mount it on the inside of the closet door so that when the cleaning people slam it after taking their brooms, mops and buckets out, all of the line cards will fall out. You pull off the cover to test for troubles and end up with a dozen line cards on the floor. Of course a snake inside of the cover would probably be less of a shock.

Now I know what that stupid locking bar with ten screws was for... It was to protect the system from cleaning people when racks are mounted on doors!

Boy Ed that reminds me of one. I went on a trouble call on an 756 PBX (hotel motel) when I got there, there were relay caps everywhere. I asked the manager what happened and he said he just pulled out the rack door and slammed it back shut to try to clear the trouble, as he had seen one of the "techs" do many times. Don't know how many of you have ever seen a large X-bar switch with literally hundreds of flipped wire springs on relays. Oh what fun, I was there for hours. I put the pins in all the doors, very tight, when I left.

Then you just turn it upside down and everything is fine! Better yet, mount it sideways and maybe gravity will keep it in check each time the front door slams.

Fixing wire spring relays is easy. Just use Picabond connectors to correct them. Seriously, I know what you mean. Straightening those things is like threading individual hairs through a comb.

Don't forget the joy of restricting phones by taking them apart to short polarity pins on dial pad, rolling T/R, then going out for repair calls every other week when tech working on other set somewhere else accidently rolls the pair while they are working their ticket.

How about the time you spent 3 hours trying to figure out why the phone would die while you looking at it and start working 30 seconds after you hung up the handset. AND you finally find the mouse-gnawed spot on the cable when you open the closet door! Why wouldn't he gnaw it, it was running through his nest! Or the guitar string tight multiples from block to block! You know, they used the excess of 1 25pr to jump to the next block by just punching without cutting. MAN, I wanted to kill that guy! 1/2 hour job took 2 days!

Bldg 13, I think that was my-ex wife!

OMG,,,,, now she's my ex-girlfriend. Going on 23+ years now.

Actually .... I think it was Bldg 125 .... 23 is awesome! congrats!

I think I confused you. I stopped dating that woman 23 + years ago. Sorry about that.
I've been married to my wife for 16 + years now.
Whew, this is beginning to look like "The day's Of Our Lives".

I've aquired a 551B KSU and two 1A2 and would like to get'em up and running. It would be ashame just to let them sit there or go to junk. Can someone help me with some kind of wiring diagram/instructions. Coping costs and postage would be covered. THANKS! for any assistance.

Sure, Ron. We will be happy to assist you. We do ask that you complete your profile. Once you are all set there, there are plenty of people here who can help.

It would be best if you start a new thread by using the "post a new topic" button instead of continuing an older one. New posts grab more attention and participation.

Hey Ed, How did 1A2 work for intercom?

There were several different ways that intercom was handled, but most used single-path intercom systems. An open talk path was wired to a dedicated line button (key) on the phones. There was no dial tone, just talk battery. You could then dial the single or double-digit intercom button and it would sound the buzzer in the called phone for 1-2 seconds. There was no privacy on intercom calls, in fact two people or more could pick up and talk to each other without dialing anything at all.

There were more sophisticated intercom systems that offered multiple talk paths, dial tone and repeated buzzing/ringing of the phones but they were much more complex to install/maintain and very expensive to rent from the telco.

Don't forget the good ol' buttons and buzzers Ed. That could drive you bananas on a large system.

Any of you guys ever get an invite to the MELCO train?
They had 2 cars. A luggage car with washer, dryer, diesel powerplant water holding tanks. And everything that Melco made, mounted on 1 wall so they could demo and you could play with it.
Then they had an observation car with 2 bedrooms and a full mini kitchen, Oh, and a VERY hospitable bar! If I recall correctly, they said they had enough fuel and water to survive for 1 week, as long as they had access to a grocery source.
And, of course, some kid set fire to it while it was 'at home' in Washington state. The whole thing was a tax write off, and I was told the owner of Melco was a train nut. I get jealous thinking about it today!

John C.

Aw c'mon Ed, be brave..... don't you remember the 6A intercom system?

Strangest thing I remmember. One store had a full 1a2 style phone system with rotary phones and dial intercom, Automatic Electric if I remember correctly, yet none of the lines connected to the phone company! The owner had some kind of dispute with ma bell and would not install their equipment, instead two phone lines went directly into the office where the two phone systems met. Accoustic couplers allowed the handset of the phone to communicate with the phone system. Anyone could call any extension, but dialing 98 0r 99 connected you to the office, where you could tell the secretary who you wanted to call. She dialed the number then set the phone down. If you finished a buzzer rang and the secretary hung up. What a wierd system! Odder still it was working that way in 1986! Never got to see the switching equipment used. A few years later the place was bulldozed for an expressway exit. I remember how fully the desk phones looked!

Did Valcom buy the rights from Melco on the rt 19 and 36 intercoms? I think they must have the units are basically the same. Any thoughts?

Charlie:

I don't think that Valcom bought the rights to these things, I think that Melco just discontinued the R, T and RT units when Augat bought them in the early 1980's.

Remember that Tone Commander, Teltone and Melco were huge suppliers of these things to Bell companies and independent telcos, while Valcom catered more to interconnects. I think the fact that telcos dropped these things like a hot potato (after divestiture) made Valcom appear to have been the sole survivor.

For the most part, Valcom and ITT were in fact the only companies who continued making 1A2 intercom equipment after at the time. I think it's safe to say that Valcom is the only remaining manufacturer of these things but it's been over five years since I have purchased one so I can't say for sure.....

I installed Tone Commander MH 4000's at many sites in Turkey. They were the perfect substitute for a C.O. switch.

The systems enabled the troops to call from one office or room to another and we connected the autovon lines to them so they could call any base in Turkey from any phone on site.

Before we installed them the troops had to go to the radio building for phone calls which was usually some distance from the barracks. And you can imagine the Site Commanders would get important phone calls all hours of the night and they didn't like having to get dressed as they ran out into freezing weather in the middle of the night.
They sure were glad to see us arrive with the truck loaded with boxes labeled Tone Commander. Word got out quick from one remote site to another. We drink lots of free beers before leaving each site. :toast:

Thanks Ed.
I remember about 25 years ago I was thrown into learning 1a2. Lots of 620's and grave stones. I said, how the hell am I going to learn this mess.

I would get comments back then like, Do you know what you are doing? You look a bit young to be working on this... ect ect...Ive got to thank those old timers who used to say. "you can be a hacker or a slasher or you can learn 1a2"

Bobby: Do you mean ML-8000's? I do remember that there were tons of them around here as well and if I recall correctly, there was a CO line interface card that sounds like what you were doing with them.

Nope, it was MH 4000's in Turkey. We did have ML 8000's at Eglin AFB. in Florida.

The 4000's were just a smaller version of the 8000.
I have not seen one since the Air Force.

Cool! When were you in Turkey? I was in the 2879th GEEIA sqaudron and was there on and off in '67-'69 installing and testing multiplexers and radios.

One site I remember the equipment building was separated from the barracks by a climb of well over a hundred stairs.

I was stationed at Incirlik AB from September 1985 to January 1987.
I think you are talking about shantepe with the stairs ( spelling is way off I'm sure but say it like it sounds and you'll probably recognize it ) but it was across the sea from Istanbul if I remember correctly.

I was at nearly every remote site and base the Air Force had in Turkey back then. Maybe I had too many free beers to remember the spelling..... :toast:

Man, you got me wondering now..... I'm gonna call one of the guys that was there with me and get the name! :toothy:

Edit: He's out of town for the time being dang it.