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#524926 03/30/11 04:36 AM
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rwx Offline OP
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I have an old magneto wall phone that has been reworked to operate on a modern system. Basically rewired with the transmitter, receiver and bell ringer replaced. It uses a WE 4293 network to connect the components together.

At one time the ringer worked right. A few years ago it stopped ringing, and I want to get it working again. There are cordless phones in my house, and one other phone that actually rings.

Is there any way to trouble-shoot this to see if it is a problem in the ringer? (I measured the two coils, and they are 1000 and 3670 Ohms, connected in series with the capacitor in the network between the coils. I can see it is "trying" to ring, but not enough to make a sound)

Thanks,

Richard

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rwx, welcome to the forum! welcome

A question: Do you get your dial tone from a good old copper phone line from the pole [or underground] right into your house, or do you by chance have Cable TV phone service, or a VoIP adapter?

Jim
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Good old copper phone line. No cable TV phone service or VoIP.

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Well, there goes my easy answer. laugh

But, the problem could still be insufficient ring voltage from an SLC [Subscriber Line Concentrator] that feeds your line. Measuring ring voltage with a standard VOM can sometimes give erroneous results, but it might be worthwhile to try it. With your meter set to measure AC voltage, call the line from a cell phone and then clip the meter [briefly] across the pair. You should see around 90 volts. If the reading is way off, try putting a 0.47 mfd, 200 volt capacitor in series with the meter leads. [Don't use an electrolytic cap, I am sure you know that already, but lots of guests read these threads as well, so we have to cover all the bases.]

If the reading is low [like 60 volts or less], then that is the problem. If you see around 90 volts, try hooking up the phone and taking a reading across the pair while the phone is trying to ring. If it is close to 90 volts when open, but drops very low with the phone hooked up, then that also points to a ringing source from an SLC that doesn't put out enough current [sometimes called "insufficient REN"].

Sometimes the capacitor in the network can go "open" over time, but the fact that your phone tries to ring tends to point away from this as a reason. Nonetheless, there are probably other possibilities that my old brain can't remember right now, so hopefully some of the real experts can check in and give you some help. [Where is everybody?]

If it is low ring voltage/insufficient REN, there are options:

1] Call the phone company and complain [yeah, right]

2] Add a ring booster

3] Buy a small used key system that has single-line telephone ports and put your phone behind that

4] Replace the ringer with one that has lower REN [probably the cheapest and easiest solution]

I'll shut up now, and hopefully some more people will weigh in on this. As I said, there may be something obvious that I am missing.

Jim
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if its a real bell ringer it could just be plain worn out , we used to replace them regularly , you can try messing with the bias spring if it has one , sometimes that will get them to work again

I seriously doubt its a telco issue

I would head to a flea mkt or ebay and look for a cheap 500/2500 with a s/l ringer and swap it out


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Quote
Originally posted by rwx:
I have an old magneto wall phone that has been reworked to operate on a modern system. Basically rewired with the transmitter, receiver and bell ringer replaced. It uses a WE 4293 network to connect the components together.

At one time the ringer worked right. A few years ago it stopped ringing, and I want to get it working again. There are cordless phones in my house, and one other phone that actually rings.

Is there any way to trouble-shoot this to see if it is a problem in the ringer? (I measured the two coils, and they are 1000 and 3670 Ohms, connected in series with the capacitor in the network between the coils. I can see it is "trying" to ring, but not enough to make a sound)

Thanks,

Richard
Look for a part number on the ringer. A straight-line ringer in most parts is a 130-BA. It's designed to ring on frequencies from about 15 2/3 to 30 Hz. It's wired across tip and ring with the black on green, the slate wires on each side of a capacitor (A&K) and the red on red.

Somewhere, like on the bottom shelf of my warehouse, I have a whole s~load of various ringers. The easiest is to grab a flea market 500 or 2500 set and see if it rings. Then you can determine if you have a different ring frequency on your line or a bad bell.

Carl

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rwx Offline OP
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Jim- The voltages read (with an inexpensive digital meter on AC) was 98 V and 135 V when ringing. Installing the phone made no difference, so I guess the replacing the ringer is the best place to go.

Carl- there is "11-69" printed on one of the coils, but there is something stamped on the frame that will require some dis-assembly -- I'll do that and see what it is.

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I have an old 500 set in beige you can have for postage only.


Forty six years and still fascinated with Telecommunications!
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Carl- The ringer has B1AL stamped on the frame, and B2AL printed in ink over it.

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Jim may not be far wrong. The capacitor 'could' be going bad and replacing it with a .47uf at 200 volts or more would be the cure.


When I was young, I was Liberal. As I aged and wised up, I became Conservative. Now that I'm old, I have settled on Curmudgeon.
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