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A classic case of loop disconnect supervision or...
#570205 04/15/14 01:48 AM
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hacky Offline OP
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Last weekend, I replaced a 10-year old DX-80 that finally went poop. It had been developing the "clickity clack" startup problem long before it finally went. All seemed well with the world, when I noticed my test calls were staying lit on the line keys, when I had long since hung up. Uh oh.

I placed a call to my cellphone and answered. I hung up my cellphone. The system never released the call even two minutes later. Crap.

I talked at length with the customer and turns out this problem started out weeks before. Their customers were being disconnected when calling in since the rollover was sending them to lines that the system thought were still in use. They also reported a bunch of silence after each voicemail message, because the silence timer in Corp Offic DX had to expire before recording would finally stop, since there was no CPC to rely on. The customer chalked it up to the phone system being on its way out.

The local LEC here is a Utility Commission owned by the city. They ran fiber to each premise and deploy an ONT powered by APC Intelligent UPSs. Of course I placed my tone lamp over the pair and waited for the lamp to extinguish when I hung up. No joy. I filed a trouble ticket stating no CPC disconnect. That process went smoothly.

A tech comes and marks things NTF and leaves the site. I converse with him about his findings. He stated he definitely heard the "Click......click" over his test set so everything was fine. I ask him the length of the disconnect signal - he checks with the switch guys and they respond back with 600ms. For a lark, I go into programming and lower the Talk Abandon and Hold Abandon timers to 50ms. I also verify that each line has Call Abandon set to Y. Now the system should be hyper-sensitive to any battery drop at all. I repeat my tests, but the system won't release the call.

I informed the tech of all these steps, and he promised to come on site again tomorrow. I asked him to test with at least a DVOM to confirm a drop in battery. My fear is that everything will be pronounced golden.

Although the Utility Commission made good decisions running fiber, it seems some aspects of the commission seem a bit "Mom and Pop". For example, long distance tables often aren't programmed correctly at their switch, so there are city-wide call delivery issues from certain long distance providers. It seems like a Least Cost Routing issue. This prompted local healthcare facilities to port their Utility Commission PRIs to Charter PRI.

I started installing phone systems in 1998 and so much has changed since then. I don't know if I'm losing my mind or if I'm just reporting trouble to the "phone company". The definition of phone company is ever changing.


Hackbarth Communications, L.L.C. - Serving South Central Wisconsin's Telecom Needs
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Re: A classic case of loop disconnect supervision or...
hacky #570206 04/15/14 01:58 AM
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Hearing the "click/click" is an ages-old problem with even pair gain equipment dating back to the 1970s. YES, the CO is sending the open loop, but the electronic systems used to extend the emulated copper service to the premises are not programmed to repeat the open. The same thing applies to ring battery. The LEC's technicians will place a butt set on the line and indicate that they hear things that are being sent, but they aren't truly being repeated all the way to the end of the circuit. I've lost a lot of hair over this.

Our industry has lost a lot of professionals who really understood the workings of a copper loop circuit. As far as I'm concerned, they can deliver it any way they want as long as it does the same thing that it does when it leaves the CO switch.

Therein lies the problem.


Ed Vaughn, MBSWWYPBX
Re: A classic case of loop disconnect supervision or...
hacky #570217 04/15/14 02:03 PM
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Sandman to the rescue. If you don't have THIS then you're just spitting in oncoming wind. The ONLY way to get CPC problems resolved is to be the technician and show the telco person empirical results. The people that the telcos are using are NOT trained, intelligent telephone technicians. I a believe that they send out a warm body just to appease and not to fix anything. That's why my techs each carry one of these CPC testers and that's why we have Fireberds and oscilloscopes and other expensive test equipment. The days of hearing clicks, pops and buzz are gone. You have to PROVE to the LEC tech and then PRAY they can reach someone within the LEC that still has one active brain cell functioning to fix the problem.

Rcaman

Last edited by Rcaman; 04/15/14 02:04 PM.

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Re: A classic case of loop disconnect supervision or...
hacky #570343 04/17/14 12:39 AM
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^^ So mote it be ^^ = Amen!


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Re: A classic case of loop disconnect supervision or...
hacky #570359 04/17/14 05:31 AM
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An update. To my pleasant surprise (admittedly), the phone company has fixed the problem. The tech I was speaking to the last few days requested the assistance of a senior tech and things started working fine this morning. I asked what the senior tech did, and he said something about "lowering the timer". While I don't buy that being the actual fix, I am happy of the outcome regardless. The senior tech apparently didn't have to come on site.

May I mention that while the tech I spoke to on the phone the last few days was perhaps inexperienced, he always called me back, left messages if I didn't pick up, and he never tried to shove me off. He also never attempted to blame my equipment.

Considering all factors, I'm fairly happy. Of course, so is the customer. That's what matters in the end.


Hackbarth Communications, L.L.C. - Serving South Central Wisconsin's Telecom Needs

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