atcomsystems.ca/forum Forums General General Telephone & Systems Information I'm Free !!!

Got called for the annual "please come over and get our phone system up and running" from the local rich folks' hotel/restaurant. Every Spring, I go find out why the entire system is dead, or why some rooms in the hotel aren't working, or which VZ lines have gone bad over the winter. I spend a day or two getting the whole place running. Sometimes it's the memory batteries in the Partner system have run down, sometimes it's mousies have chewed through the station wiring, sometimes it's the new management doesn't know how phones work...

I walk in, take a look at the KSU, and it's unplugged. That answers their question of why the whole system is dead.

I see that the KSU which I have been massaging for years (and which I keep trying to get them to replace) is gone. The KSU (which is unplugged) has a sticker from a company located in the next county, a 1.5 hour drive and a boat ride away.

I call the company and ask them WTF? Why have you stolen my customer? Lots of apologizing, lying, excusing, etc. The customer has no clue when or why the company came all the way out to this island to replace a system.

The local manager, a decent guy, understands the gravity of the situation: I live a mile away, and have been very good to these folks, responding at a moment's notice on a holiday weekend to solve an emergency for them. Sometimes the emergencies didn't involve the phones; sometimes it was the drink machines, the kitchen ventilators, the gas grill, etc that didn't work, and it was APB to the rescue.

So, I tell them "sorry" I don't work on other companies' equipment...warranty, insurance, etc., issues.

I complained to the local county department of consumer affairs that an unlicensed contractor from outside my county stole my customer. They are not interested in pursuing the matter.

So...this summer, I will not get called in the middle of the night because some rich POS can't get his WIFI to work in the hotel room.

I'M FREE!!!

Free at last, free at last....

You'll be back. They will beg and plead. But you'l be back on your terms.
Been there done that.

No good deed goes unpunished OR
its a brother ,cousin , cable guy or verizon guy
Who will disappear and your phone rings.

The best thing they will find a co in jersey who will make
one call charge a fortune and never come back because its
a pain in the ass trip.

Give them directions to eli hospital they can get the bullet
out of their foot

But your free sleep well.

Here's the excuse I get all the time being from Jersey "We can't find a company in the city to service us" Then I tell them I charge portal to portal and use public transportation in and out which is 3 hours on a train. I guess they find either another Jersey company after that. In all fairness the little job I did do in the city Tuesday was more to see the Occulus and the work being done around Liberty and it was a last minute favor for a friend. If get a call from them again I will point them to Ken.

Ugggh! I did that just ONCE and never again. I knew one guy who used to carry a tool bag and a 6 foot ladder on the trains. Ain't no way! Don't know what's worse, that or driving a service truck into the city.

I know that there is a lot of money to be made there but no thanks!

-Hal

I vaguely recall Sam saying years ago that NY Tel had repair techs walking to calls in downtown New York City. I am guessing that these crews would have ladders, wire, spare sets etc in each building?

Nothing vague about it. Most NYTelCo repairmen and installers were on foot in Manhattan, at least below 59th Street. Above that street, the districts were combination walking and driving districts. If an I/R person needed a large amount of cable or other materiel, a 4 x 8 sheet of plywood, or a ladder, etc, the stuff would be delivered by a truck and waiting for the technician when he got there.

There were also many conveniently-located storefront supply lockers where a walking or driving guy could use the facilities , wash up, eat lunch, call the dispatch desk, and get the needed telephones, parts, supplies and phone books for his next job. Non-capital (hand) tools could be turned in and replaced on a one-to-one basis. Knowing the locations of these lockers was handy when traveling around Manhattan while off-duty, if nature called or there were no convenient pay phones in the vicinity.

They were all "keyed alike," with replaceable-core BEST locks, Jeff.

Later, during the AT&T-IS days, (1984 to 1989) the company arranged for UPS to deliver the phones and KSU, and the installer just walked in and did the installation. We had several "roving" teams who wore work clothes and carried cables, drills and ladders in vans. These guys supported the walking "grid" technicians who dressed in casual business attire and carried hand tools in a briefcase.

I could write several chapters about that era and how it all turned to $h!t when the local Bell-head managers screwed it all up.

Yes, Arthur. We have a company that constantly tries to steal our customers. It's really annoying. When confronted, it's always "Sorry, we didn't know they were your customer." I guess the Americom sticker on the front of the KSU was too subtle of a hint.

Downtown Pittsburgh was similar. Of course, Pittsburgh is no New York. But the service techs that worked downtown basically worked out of two COs and had supplies delivered to them. Occasionally, on an emergency or really big job, crews from other areas would work the downtown area and report to one of two COs. Some large office buildings had similar supply depots and Bell Telephone had a good working relationship with the building managers. After 1974, it all went away, just like Arthur said.

Ah, "the good ole daze." Herbert Hoover, No Welfare and you could buy a LaSalle for under a grand.

Rcaman

Arthur, I have quite a few 'BELL SYSTEM' Best padlocks in my collection

I feel your frustration, we've all been there. But I wouldn't blame the other company as much as I would blame the customer. Every time I've been called to service a system we didn't install, when I ask the customer "what happened to the company that you bought it from" you always get some line of BS that, if you translate, all boils down to the customer doesn't want to pay or they owe money.

Sometimes too, (actually nearly always these days) there will be some idiot in charge that doesn't know a KSU from an iPhone so they never get to see your sticker. So they just Google up a service company when there is a problem.

-Hal

Hal,
What you say is true. Typically when I ask who used to service them I will get an I don't know, that's when I tell them they should find out there might be a maintenance contract in place. If they owe someone else money it's usually evident when we say new clients first call is c.o.d. We will discuss terms after that.

After speaking to other guys in my area, they tell me that the company in question is notorious for doing to other small companies what they did to me.

Many years ago I had two guys start their own telecom business near me. They must of followed me around because all of a sudden I started getting calls from my customers wondering why I didn't tell them I was closing. I found out they were going around to my customers and telling them I was closed and turned the accounts over to them. They even went to covering up my stickers on equipment with their own and taking any info I left at the site. I went to their business and we had a discussion but I never took them to court.

Wow, nothing wrong with legally and ethically going after competitions's customer base, but what they tried to do to you Merritt....that is just wrong!

Tell me about it. You wonder why I hate IT guys? I had a few customers that used the same IT guy. I stopped getting calls from them so I spoke with one of them. Seems the IT guy told them that I worked for him and he fired me. So now he was doing wiring himself and had some hack who probably kicked him back money do the phone work.

-Hal

That's a scumbag person and has nothing to do with IT people in general.

Ok. How about the one that ran all the wiring (phone+data) on a job that I had already contracted for that included the phone wiring? What was the owner to do, make him pull it out?

Or how about the one that shows up on a motorcycle and asks me if I had any wire. A guess a box of CAT6 wouldn't fit in his dumbass back pack. I ran the wiring for that job. This moron tells me one of my jacks is bad. I left at least an 8" tail in each box. By the time this guy came to me after screwing with it there was barely enough for me to install a new jack. I couldn't find any problem with the old jack and the wiring tested OK after I installed it.

I could go on. My experience is they are either incompetent or yeah, scumbags.

-Hal

I had a client where the IT Department door sign read MIS Information. I couldn't help but chuckle every time I walked past.

I guess that was the one honest one.

-Hal

couldn't have said it better.
sometimes we say what idiot did they deal with at the old vendor then after a couple months we realize where the idiot resides...

Arthur,
Did you do alarms at one point? Just think I recognize your name.

Anyway, I don't understand when you said "Stole My Customer" I too have gone over and above for my customers, then some slick sales person comes in and takes over the account. Or in other cases, maybe the customer shopped around and found another vendor 2C cheaper (which is more likely). IMHO, the problem is not the vendor that took over your account, but the lack of loyalty today with customers. Years ago, the telephone guys were the bible when we spoke to a customer, today, their IT guy is the bible. Just saying, you never own a customer, they actually own you, since you don't own a customer, it is not stealing when you lose a customer. What I will also say to you as a long time vendor in this industry, it certainly sucks and bothers me as well when a customer does not appreciate all your years of service and leave you.

I feel that pain and it sucks!!!

Yes, I have done alarms and most every type of low-voltage work over the last 50 years.

With respect to the customer of mine, whose behavior started this thread, here is the updated story:

One of the customer's employees thought the system was dead. It had been unplugged and lost its memory. They called the Avaya number on a sticker on the old KSU. That number forwards to a company that has taken over all the old Avaya accounts. They rolled a truck and sold the customer a new system. What they should have done, in my humble opinion, is asked the customer who usually serviced the system, then called me to respond.

Whether or not the customer did something wrong, the vendor certainly did something unethical.

Arthur
I think the business Ethics you expect don't exist in 2017.

That isn't the least bit unethical ... that's just competition.

Telling them someone went out of business or used to work for you and you fired them is certainly questionable but to try and take a customer from their existing vendor is not even remotely unethical.

This is the exact reason why we sticker all of our hardware including phones and KSUs. With all of the turn over that happens, the person who bought the solution X # of years ago is long gone if/when a problem pops up. We usually don't even know that a new person is our Point of Contact, and our asset stickers have pointed the new POC to us more times than I can count.

They are also useful if a client goes out of business and abandons the equipment, and a new tenant takes their space.

Well, we sticker all our product primarily so that a customer under warranty can't take a bad phone from his friend and say it's one of ours that went bad or purchase a phone online and say it's ours. But yes, the other reason is like you said, so that our name is everywhere to be found.

-Hal

You can also use that change of staff over time as an excuse to visit and offer a quick instruction course to the newbies, answer any questions and see if there are any additional phones, moves, etc that you can take care of. The visit is a sales call, but you look like the good guy by offering a free mini training while you're there and maybe get a sale from it.

Jim

Really? How is it questionable, that it is unethical, to downright lie?

If you try to take a customer from some one else without even worrying about who took care of them before, You're just a dick. I believe in capitalism, but that doesn't seem very ethical to me.

Well itsa dog eat dog!

I'm not sure if you read my post correctly. I said telling a lie about being out of business or being fired is certainly questionable as a business practice. To clarify I would never do it and do think it is unethical. However taking a customer from another vendor is simply competition.

Verizon tries to take the cable companies business and vice versa. McDonalds tries to take Burger Kings customers. Mechanics try to get business from other mechanics.

If you are qualified to work on a piece of equipment and feel you provide better value and service than the current vendor then there is absolutely nothing wrong with trying to win their business.

It happens every day in every industry.

If the current vendor is maintaining the relationship, doing a good job and providing value to the customer they won't leave in most instances.

Speaking as someone many years out of the industry, (and decades out of the small system business!) I have to say that I believe that Corporate stickers on the product may be one of the more important thing the small businessman can do.

Small to medium sized customers - especially if you did a good job installing the product originally - may not remember who exactly did the install. If they've had a lot of MAC work or repairs (or if they have a continuing service contract) then they know who you are. Otherwise - maybe not.

Back in the early to mid '70s I worked for a firm that installed key systems, intercoms and PA systems in NYC. We were early installers of Iwatsu and one of the products was a "714". This was essentially a version of 1A2 - the phone had 7 CO lines, one intercom and 14 manual intercom buttons running on a 25 pair cable. It was essentially bulletproof. We had customers who bought the system, had a years free maintenance and then (after a year with no service calls) never renewed the maintenance contract. Years later we would hear from them for something - and the only reason we heard was the sticker on the KSU.

Sam

I knew a guy who started an interconnect company called "Key Communications." When a business man would tell a worker to find a telephone company for a repair, and the worker turned the phone over to see what the label said what type of phone it was, the worker would call my friend's company, since the phone was a "Key" telephone.

Another guy I knew started a company called "West End Electric." When a customer would ask 411 for "Western Electric" (since that would be the name on the phone that was broken) the nearest hit in the Directory Assistance data base was "West End Electric." (The real Western Electric never advertised locally or had their numbers listed in DA, because they were 100% owned by the phone company.)

^ Brilliant!

We've always put our labels on the KSU's but never phones.
I'll give that some thought.

I label all equipment and sets. My buddy in the next area even labels the jacks...just to piss off future Bell techs...

Where does everyone get their labels printed up? Do you use anything special or ornate, like foil or logos?

We use Arco label stock. We imprint our logo and telephone number and the work order for that install. With a color laser printer, you can make a professional label easily. We label EVERYTHING. KSU, Phones, Power Supply, Blocks and any peripheral equipment like door boxes and the accompanying power supply. I once labeled a customer's dog. He was just pestering me as I was attempting to install the KSU in a really tight space. So, he got a label. It took him an hour to get that off his paw. Worked out just great.

Rcaman

Is Arco like Avery? You just buy a box at Staples and print them on a color laser?

Yes. They are the same.

Rcaman