atcomsystems.ca/forum Forums Wiring - Telecom Carriers - Trunks & Services Cabling Telephones Systems Wiring Can you identify this terminal?

Hey folks! I'm wondering if someone can help me identify what type of terminal this is. Or rather, I am trying to find out which tool I need to terminate on it. I had someone tell me it required a Krone blade, but that did not seem to work. I've also had someone tell me it was a Bix block. However, when I look at a Bix block online, it does not seem to be the same as this. Any ideas? There is a mall I service on a regular basis that only has these terminals, and I'd like to be able to move pairs around if I need to. Thanks for any help!

Looks like the connector for a 3m modular splicing system, there was a tool for single pair, but I don't remember what it was called. See this video

Wow! Now that you say 3M, I can clearly see a 3M stamp on the corner of it. Although this does not quite match what the video shows, you are definitely on to something. Thanks!

Those type of connections are more for main splices and cable count throws. Not meant for moving jumpers around. Is there a place that has better access to the pairs?

Jim

That's true, different modules for straight though and bridge. They weren't made for distribution. If you can see the different layers I'm pretty sure that's what they are, but it's been many years since I've actually used one so I'm not positive. There's probably part numbers stamped somewhere, if you can find them google them and it will probably lead you in the right direction. Does look like there's jumper on those in your picture.

We used a this tool to punch down jumpers in outside terminals. We had blue ones and yellow ones I think there the sameones as before

https://www.ebay.com/itm/3M-4055-MS...Blue-3M-Telecom-Punch-Tool-/272968360469

Again I'm not positive, but wasn't one for terminating and the other for bridging? We never used the distribution blocks, just the splicing blocks, after I got out of construction and into maintenance the Bell System changed to a smaller mini block, not sure if they were made by 3m or not. The last time I used the system shown in the video was probably the mid 70's or so, it was fast.

See if THIS helps. Scroll down about half way to application.

How many of those things do you have? Might just be easier to rip them out and use 66 blocks. I can't even see how the positions are inter-connected.

-Hal

Ah, yes. The infamous 3M MS2 cross connecting system. It is a plain 1:1 block, with the cable pair going in on the bottom and the jumper wire on top. Terrible design, especially when used in outside plant environments. It amazes me how many of them are still in service with the blocks falling all over the place. Good luck with these things.

As far as I can tell, cross connect wires come from each binding post to these terminal "wafers". These connect to 25 pair cables that go to the individual suites in the mall. There does not seem to be any good way to jump away from this setup. I'm basically at the mercy of where Frontier decides to park the line. It seems like they would have to drop it on specific posts in order to get it to the right place.

Thanks, Hal! This is very helpful. 66 blocks would be wayyyyy easier, but it isn't my equipment. Unfortunately, I just have to deal with it.

It's always the customer's equipment. If I encountered something like that I would tell them that for whatever reason improper and non standard terminal blocks were used and no one in this business has the tools to work with it. I'm giving you a price to replace them with the correct equipment.

I'll be dammed if I had to go out and buy special tools just because some installer used those to create "job security" for himself.

-Hal

Plenty of independent telcos used the 3M MS2 cross connect system back in the 80s. They might be unusual in former Bell areas, but here in a state with about 75% coverage by independents, they show up pretty regularly. As I said before, they are/were a terrible design, but I don't think they were installed a matter of job security. It was just the local telco following their standard practice. I do agree that it's probably easier to try to eliminate them than to service a known failure of a product. If it was so great, the tool wouldn't be difficult to find.

I had to splice bunch of 900 pair cables that were being extended. I asked for Scotch or B connectors and was given the MS2. I never liked it for a variety of reasons.

ED, BTW - NY Tel in one or more of it's incarnations (NYNEX, I think) used MS2. So did AT&T.

I thought it made a splice that you needed a garbage pail to cover.

It's selling point was that you spliced 25 pair at a time...


Sam

I saw a contractor using an MS2 just last fall.

Yes Sam, they made for a very large splice. Fast but you needed a larger splice case and than wrap them about as tight as you could with muslin to make it fit. When they were used in terminals it made for quite a mess in a very short time as people would go in to test a pair, cut it out of the connector and bean it back.

Yeah, probably not. But I can see some interconnect buying a bunch of them on Ebay thinking nobody else is going to know what to do with these...

-Hal

3M's MS2 and AT&T's 710 modular splicing systems are both owned by 3M now. Both take up the same amount of space with regard to splice modules, but I've always found the 710 system to be more goof-proof. Most Bell companies standardized with the 710 system, however some used 3M post-divestiture when they were told to abandon Western Electric products (or else). I haven't seen any RBOCs in my travels that are still using MS2, but that's not to say that they aren't. At the same time, most independents weren't using any Western Electric products either (710) because they were more expensive, so I can say with certainty that I haven't encountered this system in use in their territories.

Keep in mind that I've only seen territories in the mid-Atlantic region. I can't speak for all of them.

The inside wiring termination system that the OP questioned was definitely 3M's MS2. It was never popular, but for independent telcos in the US, it was an alternative to AT&T's 110 system. BIX was never widely accepted here. My guess is that this was due to lack of stocking distributors. They tried the MS2 system and quickly found that it was more trouble than it was worth, and reverted back to the original US standard, the 66 block system.

I've used the MS2 a dozen or so times, and never by choice. Always seemed to me that you'd get half to 3/4 the way thru laying down your pairs and the first would start coming loose out of the spring clip.

I have also seen these monsters in NYC installs.

See: http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/305741O/ms2-mudulos-de-terminaciun-y-accesorios.PDF
This is almost certainly not the customer's equipment. The only time I have seen MS2 modules with 4010 covers (which turns them into terminal or cross connect connect boxes) at... phone company terminal or cross boxes. the building terminals even have a big sheet metal covering for 'phone company techs only'. I guess I tmight be leftovers from a PBX system the phone company used to maintain, but I doubt it, that was usually 110 or 66 blocks.

I would make sure that it's your property/headache. It's probably your LEC's terminal and you don't need to mess with it. Call in a ticket and tell them you are missing your demark. They should bring it to a 66 block and label it for you.

If you are certain it's yours (take more pics?), and really want to get rid of it, you could buy a more modern terminal like 3m 4688-50, which comes with 66 block and rj21 connections. Make sure you buy pass-through protectors for it though. that terminal and this thread came up for me when I was searching 3m ms2 rj21 to see if they sold any pre-made jumpers to convert out of the system. You would probably need to buy a 3m ms2 separation tool, to pop off the old terminal stuff, but that shouldn't be that bad on ebay or whatever. They sell a special crimper to connect the modules, but since this is a one time thing for you, you can get away with a pair of slip-joint pliers if you're careful about lining the new and old Ms2 modules right.

There's not much reason to get rid of it now though. Hang up the tool from Alibaba in the room, and leave an extra one in your desk. They work fine until someone starts tearing the pairs out of the back because they don't have the tool or can't figure out how to use it.

I have found MS2 to be much faster than amps or scotchlocks and use it whenever I can in splices. It's also neater and easier to maintain if cables ever need to be added or removed or trimmed out for bridge tap/repeaters. You can also work 4 people in a splice which makes shift work go faster. You need to really figure out your setup though. If you don't have it perfect, they turn into nasty rats nests. There aren't very many good trainers for it anymore. I picked this all up from hard knocks and reading the manuals.