atcomsystems.ca/forum Forums TDM Business Telephone Systems Avaya - Lucent Telephones & Systems Partner seizes lines constantly

This is an ACS 509 rev 7

I arrived on site and they told me of a cut cable due to construction. They pointed me to a bad station Identified by a former tech. I plugged it back in at the KSU and this station worked fine.

HOWEVER, like most customers, after that station was fixed they said the original problem that they called the other company for was that the system grabs a line every 5 min or so.

I monitored the CO line and can hear what sounds like a rattle similar to a short ring burst. It draws dialtone but no dtmf for 3-5 seconds then drops and repeats 5 min later. I disconnected CO 1 from the KSU and it grabbed line 2 instead.

I disconnected all the IW’s from the 308ec but trouble stayed
I removed that 308ec card and the trouble cleared so I reseated it and the trouble came back.
I pulled the VM card but trouble stays.
I decided it had to be that station card and replaced it.

HOWEVER the trouble returned with the new card in.

I removed the OTHER 308ec card and the trouble cleared as well.

With 2 new station cards inserted the trouble remained. With either station card removed the trouble was gone.

I backed it up and pulled the batteries. I left it at the default state with the VM out and on restart it continued to seize a line.

I restored their software and left out 1 station card to give them limited service.

Have I missed something here? My next step is to replace the processor & restore as I am out of bullets.


Thank you in advance.

With problems getting clean dial tone, could there be a problem with outside wiring? (Or is DT clean at the demarc but not so much on system phones).

What I do in a situation like that is I choose a phone or two and program DSS buttons for every extension and VM ports as well. So now you can see what extension is going off hook just by looking. I don't know if this is going to help you but it's a place to start. I know you replaced expansion mods etc. Weird problem but for giggles do the DSS buttons just to see what you get. I agree that the next step is to replace the ACS but replace it with an R8 and program from scratch (you won't be able to restore from an R7.) . The R7 had lots of problems.

-Hal

I agree with Hal.
I had a call back in the day, where a phone cord was plugged in, and it fell just on the edge of where the fork trucks ran.
Every night, the truck would take the pallet of garbage out, and run over the cord end. This would seize a line. The only way to reset it, was power cycle the system.

we put a 34D in, so we could have DSS for every station...and tracked it that way.

DEXMANN
Dial tone is clean at the demarc and anytime they access it via the line keys if it is not in use. If I monitor the line at the demarc with the system connected I hear what I would call a short ring burst as it draws DT then it drops off after a minute.

HBISS
I like the DSS Idea but how do I know which are the VM ports. Also if 2 STA cards are present with the processor and the VM is pulled out there is no trouble. THANK YOU FOR THE RESTORE TIP!

MONGO5150
I've removed the IW's from the 2 station cards and if just the bare cards are in, the trouble remains. I hesitated to pull the IW from the processor as the trouble only happens when there are 2 308ec's

All you mention is VM card. What is it and if it's not the PC card that goes into the ACS you need go tell us everything in the carrier also.

-Hal

This may sound strange, but I saw a random and weird things happen with a bad 5 slot carrier.

Slots are as follows:

308ec
VM (not just the PCMCIA card)
PROC
308ec
vacant

Your VM ports are:

VS
- 2-port: 31 & 32
- 4-port: 29, 30, 31, & 32

Partner Messaging:
- 2-Port: 27 & 28
- 4-Port: 27, 28, 29, & 30
- 6-Port: 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, & 32



Is it the same line each time? Or if the line it grabbed 5 minutes ago is in use, does it then pick a different line?

I know your next question is going to be which VM is it and how many ports. Just intercom 27 through 32 and note which ones the VM picks up on. Those are your VM ports.

-Hal

EXCELLENT Diagram and intel, Tommy.

It appears to be like a 9th level selection. It will always pick line one if it is idle. If 1 is busy it will pick line 2..


One thing though. If the entire VM board is REMOVED and there is only the PROC and both 308ec's the problem starts so I don't think the VM /AA is the key to it. What is weird is that if there is only 1 308ec then there is no trouble?

is it possible that a phantom station port far enough removed from one 308 card is remotely call forwarded and is seizing in an attempt to forward a call sent to that station port? perhaps dialing all of the station ports that would appear in a second port card would duplicate your trouble

If you pull either 308 card then the station number scheme changes. So that would point to something at the higher numbered stations on the system. This would either point to programming or physical issues with either the cabling or the equipment (card or 5 slot carrier). Have you just removed all of the cabling from the last 308 card in the system?

Well, did you program DSS buttons like we suggested? Don't want to hear any more wild guesses from anybody until you do.

-Hal

I had the IW off both 308ec's but not the processor card and the trouble was still there as long as they were plugged into the carrier.

The site is 35 miles north of me so I waited until I had another processor card before returning.

I have another set to do the DSS testing and this is where I plan to start. I think the renumbering is a good clue as that would mask a bad actor in the higher ext. numbers.

I'll be back after I try these things.

Thanks Again!

This one really has me curious on what you find wrong.

First and foremost I must thank everyone here for the stellar help diagnosing this one..

OK, Guys,

This was just another of Ralph's NSTIW problems.

IMHO This is what occurred.

I had been shooting the original line seizing problem too casually and instead of identifying which extension was doing it FIRST, I just began unplugging the RJ14's on each port hoping to see when the line seizure dropped. That's when things got worse. After all the things suggested here I used the DSS to Identify the offending extension. I unplugged it but the the trouble still showed to the other 308 which I HADN'T suspected as is was on an unused but CONNECTED port#40. I removed all the plugs from the 308 but the trouble remained, so I replaced that card and it cleared. I was about to call it a done deal until I got outside in the sunlight. Unknown to me was that 2 earwigs had taken up residence in one of the jacks. When I finally got it out in the light could see inside I could see where I had apparently squished them and the moisture had crossed the data pairs. I used my dental picks to clean it out, reseated it and all was good. I also sprayed insecticide around the cabinet closest.

Had I thought about Hbiss's original recommendation to use DSS keys to locate it, this could have all been avoided. I think the earwigs themselves may have been there a while but were OK until I released the juices by reinserting the plug in 40.

In my world of "half full/half empty but still room for more" I ALWAYS look for the pony in the manure. I justified this to myself with: Well at least I found them instead of it becoming an intermittent that fluctuated for months with the humidity.

Next lifetime I want to be a plumber. They ALWAYS know where the $#!T is coming from. Water problems are always readily apparent. It drips, it sprays, it won't go away, there is none.

THANKS AGAIN FOR THE EXCELLENT TECHNICAL SUPPORT!

Ralph

Ralph,
Thanks for the update, this one was like a soap opera couldn't wait for the next episode.

Thanks Dans,

If you liked this one watch for the title of my book.

"No $#!t,

There I was.........."

While I only have about 10 chapters ready, I have about 150 more oddball incidents.... Uh... 151 now.

You know STANDARD stuff from the field.

Like when I was still with Pacific Telephone we had made over 20 tech visits looking for noise in vain with a pissed off customer. It all tested fine but I was afraid to stand in her kitchen and tell dispatch it was OK out again so I went to the protector to make the call. Unlike I was told by my supervisors, I usually did not make people lock up their animals. Well I'm talking to the testboard on clear Dialtone again when their big old dumb lab walks up and pees on the corner of the house. SHXHHSSSSHHHSSSXXXXX...... With gloves on I pulled back the IW and found 2 staple holes facing towards the wall. I stripped back the outside sheath and found green corrosion going about 3" up each side. I replaced that section and was THRILLED that I had finally found the recurring problem. I told the customer what it was and she complained about how many visits it took. I told her to have her dog pee everywhere before calling us again.

Just another day in the life of Ralph.....

And I am extremely grateful for the guidance I receive here.