atcomsystems.ca/forum Forums Other TDM Phone Systems 1A2 and Comkey Telephones & Systems Trying to set up a WE 620A2

Oh, I have the power supply grounded with a 12 gauge wire from the screw on the power supply to a cold water pipe above my workbench. Would that be acceptable?

Oh yeah, and going for a "square system" as you put it. CPC seems like what I'm looking for for this setup. The 66 blocks are the right way of doing it, but they're not "user friendly" or "portable" enough for the project I have in mind.

The ring generator terminals are usually under a little plastic guard or cardboard flap to keep nosy fingers out.

There is a modification to earlier 400D cards to make them ring on modern (metallic) circuits. If you're handy with a soldering iron, PM me for info on that.

My preference is either 400D ISS15, or ITT400E. I think (personal opinion here) the later Western Electric cards -especially the 400H- suck.

More often than not the polarity coming out of these fake phone line gizmos is backwards. I don't know why, it just seems really common in my experience. Try reversing them before you condemn the phone. If the TT dial still won't work, open up the phone and clean all the little contacts around the outside of the TT pad, and the ones on the bottom of it under the plastic cover. Those things are nearly indestructible. I've only ever had one go out of tune, and I twiddled the slugs in the coils on the back and got it right. Don't mess with those unless it is making tones and they aren't recognized. I wonder if the gizmo you're using has enough loop current to operate an older TT dial......

If you're only source of dial tone is the cell phone to pots adapter, that ground isn't as critical. I'm almost 99% sure the non-ringing is a result of those older 400D cards.

Like I said before, I have an honest-to-betsy copper line straight from the phone company central office (I asked a tech- nothing but a cross box between me and the CO) and my earlier 400D cards won't ring up. They used to, then one day they didn't. Checked my grounds, checked polarity, checked my sanity even. Something changed and those earlier cards just won't ring up. I put in the ISS15's and presto. I was back in business. They work fine with my grandstream VOIP adapters and my Obihai VOIP adapters, too.

As long as it's copper all the way to where it ties into the water supply. If there's a meter on it jumper around the meter.

Bill if I were to put one lead from my AC meter to hot and touch the other one to the pipe and get voltage would that mean that it's a good ground?

Thanks

John

No. A megger is the only real way to test a ground, which no one has or does anymore. An ohm meter from a known ground source like power ground (not neutral) to your ground source should have close to zero ohms. The correct way to do it is to bond all grounds so you have no difference in potential. You probably don't have to be all that critical in your test bench environment, but I'd still make sure my ground is good and bond if possible.

In your example you can take the positive side of you meter to the hot side of a power outlet and any ground no matter how slight will give you a good voltage reading, so that is definitely not a good test.

Historically, the home’s copper water pipe system provided a safe ground for the home’s electrical system. The plumbing system was grounded because its metal pipes extended a long way underground. However these days the increased use of polyvinyl chloride, or PVC, pipes throughout home plumbing systems displaced the use of copper and other metals enough that water lines were no longer reliable grounds for electrical system.

A secondary electrode is a length of metal, typically 8 to 10 feet, driven into the ground. When correctly installed, only enough of the rod remains above ground for attachment to a heavy gauge wire. The other end of that wire attaches to the home’s electrical system and bonds to the plumbing system. Standard building codes accept steel conduit, steel rods and copper-clad steel as grounding electrodes. These devices are also called secondary electrodes, since some electricians still ground electrical systems to the home’s plumbing. Electrical codes require the use of a second electrode in these instances.

At my old home (built 1935) the electrical panel was not grounded. However, there was a 14 gauge copper wire connected from the Neutral Bus Bar to a galvanized cold water pipe. When we replaced all the old corroding galvanized pipe with Pex piping it was time to pound in an electrode.

The point is the ground you have today may not be a valid ground tomorrow.

I forgot to add the reason we changed to Pex piping was due to a serious water leak about one foot from the entry point into the basement. Rotor-Router came out and cut through the concrete path and discovered that the piping that connect from the water meter to the hose had been changed somewhere and it was Swing Pipe.

For those that don't know Swing Pipe is more commonly known as "Funny Pipe" and used for irrigation.

So basically the use of the Cold Water pipe as a Grounding source was insufficient. As the saying goes: "You don't know, what you don't know."

2 things.

As far as grounding; These are all valid points, and on a permanently installed system with real CO lines, cabling running through walls, and sets placed all over house/business, I would 100% agree. Having a good ground is both essential and mandatory. However... That is not the problem the OP is having. I've tested plenty of 1A2 gear, including a 620/620A2 panel on my kitchen counter with zero grounding and it worked just fine. No, I would never in my right mind leave a system like that, but for testing purposes, the world isn't going to end. He has a source of dial tone coming from a cell phone to POTS adapter. It definitely isn't using grounded ringing. Having it grounded, while not a bad thing, is not going to solve his problem. His problem is the only line cards he has are Weco 400D of issue 8 and 13, both of which will ONLY respond to grounded ringing. He needs a card that will respond to ringing current that is across tip and ring, like an issue 15 400D, or any of the later cards like 400G or H, or the ITT 400E. If that doesn't make it ring, I'll eat my hat.

As far as water pipes; I've run into the same thing where the city/town has actually used that black irrigation type pipe as service line into a house. Two people I do work for both have that. They're both in the same town, and both houses are of similar age. The houses pre-date the municipal water supply, and originally had wells. Sometime in the mid 70's the town ran water mains and tied in the houses with that crappy pipe. They have grounds running to the copper pipe within the house because you have to bond it to ground, but it isn't a ground in itself. At least in NH, that's code. If the house has copper or metal water piping, it must be bonded to the electrical ground. This way should a pipe ever become energized, it would (in theory) pop the fuse or breaker of the circuit energizing it. The requirement for building grounds is from the meter box a grounding conductor of proper size must be run down through an inter-system bonding terminal and into the ground to two 10' copper plated electrodes driven in not less than 6 feet apart. They must be completely in the ground. You're expected to trench to them and make the bond in the trench, then once inspected by both the city inspector and the power company, you can bury it and they'll seal up the meter box and turn on the juice. It sounds like more of a hassle than it is. They're pretty good about all being there at the same time to do the inspection, and when I say trench, I use the term loosely. It only has to be under the surface so it isn't a tripping hazard. A few inches is generally ok unless its in a high traffic area.

Yes, it Shall Be as the AHJ's deems permissible. So, in some locations, Article 250.50(A)5 allows only one 8-foot electrode.

I was attempting to demonstrate why Cold Water pipe may not be the ideal grounding source.