atcomsystems.ca/forum Forums General General Telephone & Systems Information Which brand to use?

And you don't exactly gain sympathy by treating people the way you do.

Fine. Then pay your dues, learn the trade by working for someone who has experience, start you own business, buy your equipment through legitimate channels, sell it for a fair price.

THEN come back here and we will welcome you.

-Hal

And before you start with the capitalism stuff again, I would have no problem if the equipment sold on the net was legitimate. It's not. While whoever sold it to you may have been operating legally, it was obtained illegally in breach of whoever sold it to them's contract with the manufacturer.

That isn't capitalism, its illegitimate trade.

Your statement may or may not be true, but you seem to be confused about the concept of capitalism. The manufacturers try to limit distribution of their equipment to keep prices artificially high. This is not capitalism (I'm sure you've heard the term "free-market" capitalism, and that isn't exactly a free market, is it). Anything that moves prices closer to their true value to the consumer [edit] and fosters competition [/edit] brings the system closer to true capitalism, legal or not. (in this context)

[This message has been edited by squeakygeek (edited August 05, 2005).]

sell it for a fair price.

I think we each have a different concept of a fair price. I think a business should try to be fair to the customer, not to other business. That's anti-competition, which is what I've been trying to explain.

edit:

Do you think that it should be illegal for me to buy a system and install it in my own building? Is that fair? I don't think so. It is a scam typical of the trades and a corrupt government. (this varies by state)

And about "paying your dues"... That is a very long rant. You don't want to go there.

another edit:

And I don't see it as you being cheated by the gray market. My opinion is that you are being cheated by the manufacturers.

[This message has been edited by squeakygeek (edited August 05, 2005).]

[This message has been edited by squeakygeek (edited August 05, 2005).]

I'm not going to go back and forth with you on this.

Suffice it to say that the primary reason manufacturers limit distribution to qualified dealers is because they want the equipment installed properly and the customer supported.

You are right though in that the perceived value of a product will decrease with every complaint it gets. That's exactly what happens when it gets sold to trunk slammers and the general public.

When a customer buys from a dealer they complain to the dealer who should take care of the problem. Buy gray market and the outfit you bought it from isn't going to help you. So now the product is crap because they can't figure it out.

Have a good evening.

-Hal

We all know where this is going.
Homeboy installs system. Maybe he does a fair job, maybe not. Homeboy is off to college.
Lawyers use system a while and then stumble on to the fact that its not working as planned and they have lost large amounts of business due to not getting messages properly or not getting info to callers after hours properly, maybe hackers in voice mail and $10,000 phone bill etc etc etc. They call Homeboy, oops Homeboy at college. They call regular phone dudes.
Smart phone dude says who are you and why are you calling me for emergency??? Lawyer tells huge ass lie (Paging Hughe Jass). Phone dude says OK and goes or sends tech on service call. Tech looks at gobble d gook install and lack of documentation and informs Lawyer of time involved to figure out the mess and also how they want the system to work. Lawyer gets red in face, the nerve of some prople, wanting to get paid for thier knowledge and experience,,,, YADDA,YADDA,YADDA.....

My best friend is a lawyer but I stay away from them businesswise.

Brokeda........BINGO......right on the money...

brokeda...we have a winner here.

This has to be one of the most humorous threads I have read in a while.Really guys,think about it for a second.I have had alot of jobs in my life as I am sure most of you have.Would we really be doing this for a living if it was such a difficult job?I for one dont consider this to be brain surgery.The guy(sqeaky)obviously has some intelligence.The nortel docs are fairly easy to interpret.He will make mistakes and he will get stuck.I'm sure this board might have been a help to him.Although I doubt he will get any now.In my opinion we should have let it ride and awaited the results.Some of us might have been standing there with our foot in our mouth when he only had to ask a question or two.Some of you that let the topics of this board stress you out,take it easy,its just a thread.Its not like he said something bad about your mother.

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Richard

brokeda: Glad to see someone has a sense of humor around here.

Richard: Some of them are frustrated because they tried sincerely to scare me away, but they failed. I kept quiet in the beginning for the reason you state, so that later I could get help if needed. Now that I know who will help me and who would like to see me fail, I can speak my mind without burning bridges. (But I will always speak it respectuflly, of course).