atcomsystems.ca/forum Forums TDM Business Telephone Systems Avaya - Lucent Telephones & Systems Avaya Partners ACS vs. Vodavi STS

Yes, as started above I would definitely want the Partner Messaging R.7 quoted for the Avaya VM solution instead of the 4-box PC card mail, due to the fact that you are looking at running two businesses off of one system.

Another thing I would strongly recommend is REFERENCES.
Ask both companies for a reference list of customers they have installed systems for. Even ask them for the oldest customer they can supply as a reference. And the one that can supply the oldest happy customer then that is the vendor I would choose.
Because the name on the equip really doesn't mean much anymore. It's all about how you will be taking care of weeks, months and years after the install.

There are things that the Avaya supplier (I don't care if they are authorized or not) did right and wrong. I cannot comment upon the Vodavi, it has been years since I looked at that manufacturer.

As previously stated by others the VM system is inadequate, HOWEVER they did add in the protection for the AC Line and the Telephone Lines, which the Vodavi supplier did not and should have. I myself only use sine wave UPSs for surge suppression. Both vendors missed some very important items and you need to clear them up.

I myself never take advice from those who know very little on the subject, a contractor in this case. A contractor builds a building and then is rarely seen, you will have visits much more often from your communications (voice & data) suppliers. I always ask my customers to involve me in the planning process of the building or remodel not after the fact.

My recommendation is to go back to both prospects with all the input you have received here today and see what relationship(s) you can build before you buy.

A few follow-up comments. First of all, thanks to all who have contributed. I really appreciate your time and thoughtful comments.

1. I've tried to verify the Avaya dealer but the Avaya site is having trouble processing my request at the moment. That being said, this company warned me about buying "gray market" items, so I'm thinking that they are a true Avaya dealer. All of their paperwork also says that they are bonafide dealer of Avaya equipment. I'll make sure and ask about the "problems" with the R7 units, as they never mentioned that one to me. hbiss, what problems have you been having with the R7s?

2. The Vodavi VM system does come with AC line protection through a "battery back-up" that I didn't list. Although no specific surge protector, per se, is included.

3. Also, there was originally a quote for the aforementioned Vodavi modem, but the owner (not the salesperson) of the company selling Vodavi said my office is "too close" to their office to need this and they would always just stop buy to fix any potential problems. The owner also gave me his personal cell phone number and said he answers it 24 hr/day. Sounds like pretty good service I suppose, but I'll call his references in the AM to verify long-term service.

4. The Vodavi dealer does not offer "lightning protection guarantee" and says that he loses 2/4000 systems he services a year to lighning...he states that AT&T installs some protection through a "gas fuse D-Marc box" on the outside of the buliding and feels as though if that fails, my property insurance will cover that type of loss. He did offer to put in anywhere from "6 to 25 ports" of lightning protection for an additional fee, but he says he, himself wouldn't spend the money on it.

5. The owner said, given my situation he would also consider purchasing a STS 8 port VM system with unlimited mailboxes and 200 hours of recording time in case I expand to 2 companies in the coming year...but with that came a huge jump in price (~double). Is it worth that? Maybe I should just buy another system, if and when I need it instead of making this huge initial purchase? Pros/cons anyone?

6. I'm waiting to hear back from the Avaya dealer regarding the VM size.

Thanks again everyone. I'm learning so much from you pros!

If the two companies you are planning are autonomous- no common extensions and no common receptionist then it's going to be less expensive to install two smaller systems. I often recommend exactly that. I have even recommended that small companies with one or two lines could even do away with the VM and instead use what's available from the telco since they usually roll it into a package.

As for the R7, I think if you do a search of this forum on the Partner ACS R7 it will answer your questions. The R7 is an R6 that was just redesigned to add another two lines and one extension so that the one module was competive with other manufacturers one module systems. Unfortunately they made some other hardware changes that also involved the software. For some reason they never got it right and patches were released that actually caused yet other problems. Most of the known problems have been taken care of except I believe the "DND issue" where if an extension is on "do not disturb" a transfered call will go to extension 10 (receptionist) instead of the extension's mailbox. As a dealer I'm just not comfortable with the R7 and prefer to stick with the tried and true R6. I find that many trunk slammers push the R7 because they think it is the latest release and are unaware of the problems. There are legitimate dealers who will sell it also.

As for protectors on the CO lines, I always provide them unless the service is from something like a cable modem or a channel bank. It's small cost is well worth the added protection. Also, I'm not sure that your insurance would cover damage from power surges or lightning, or if it does would be cost effective to file a claim for it.

-Hal

DND on the R7 is not an issue with Partner Messaging, only with older, manufacture discontinued, VS Mail.

To answer your questions in order:

3. You still should have the modem so that anyone can assist you with remote programming and diagnostics. God forbid that something happens to this guy. I am not sure how you might be, but my customers would never be willing to wait until we can "swing by" for troubleshooting. Not to mention that there may be instances where the manufacturer may need to check something for the vendor if troubleshooting is necessary.

4. I agree with the potential vendor on this issue. The gas tube protection installed by the telco are usually is sufficient and property insurance will usually cover any damage beyond it. Although these are only required for personnel and property protection, they do a pretty good job of grooming surges. We don't include any additional surge protection devices unless absolutely mandated by the customer. It seems as if we have more problems with these devices than without.

5. There are two versions of the internal voice mail for this system. One uses flash (solid state) memory for storage and can expand to six hours of storage and 64 mailboxes. Flash memory is similar to what you see used with MP3 players and digital cameras. That's usually more than enough for a typical small business, two or even more.

There's also another version of voice mail that uses a hard drive for memory storage. Certainly, this will add a tremendous amount of capacity, but it's still limited to eight simultaneous callers (ports). I seriously doubt that you'd need something with this capacity, as it is clearly ten times+ what your actual needs will likely ever be.

Yep, never had any problems with R.7 ACS and Partner Messaging. Actually we haven't had any problems with the R.7 K's at all.