atcomsystems.ca/forum Forums General General Telephone & Systems Information options - migrating to converged at 2 locations

My company is looking at some options to move to a converged architecture, and I would love some opinions. We have contracted a consultant, but I am trying to keep up with my own research as well.

Current systems:
Merlin Magix R2.0
Merlin Messaging
8 analog trunks
30 digital extensions

Partner ACS R6.0
Partner Messaging
5 analog trunks
10 digital extensions

6000/768 ADSL service

Main goals:
Trunk the 2 locations together onto the same dial plan and voicemail.
Converge data and voice service to lower cost.
Integrate with existing handsets (Lucent 4400, Partner 18).
Open upgrade path (SIP, H.323).
Meet these goals as economically as possible!

What are some of your preferred solutions to this problem? Voice capacities are not expected to grow much from our current specs. I am vendor neutral, so anything goes.

You say you are vender neutral but if you intend to use the existing handsets, you're going to have to go avaya. Don't you think?

Isn't this the same question you asked here- https://www.sundance-communications...b/get_topic/f/5/t/002193/p/1.html#000010

If you want to do this as economically as possible replace the Partner with a Magix and link the two.

Sounds like the problem is you are talking to IT people.

-Hal

are there no products that can intergrate avaya handsets into a different platform?

This is why I decided to rephrase my question for the general forum, rather than the avaya forum.

Also the magix does not support ip trunking, correct? So I would not be able to converge our data network onto the same CO service. Please let me know if I am off base here.

Here are a few of the things that come to mind for me.

1: You say you have contacted a consultant. In the telecom business, most consultants will have a bias toward the produts they are familiar with. For example, we had a consultant in our area a number of years ago who used to work for Rolm. He only understood Rolm. Guess what? All of his solutions were Rolm products. If your conslutant sends you straight to a specific product like Cisco or 3Com, ask him for alternatives as well as references including his work resume.

2: WHen tying two lications together, you will probably do it using a telecom networking scheme (not data networking as far as an IT guy might understand it). I'm not the expert on Magix - Hal and the other Avaya moderators and technicnains can help you with this part. However, with the products we sell, we can take two systems in remote locations and add the hardware and software - plug them into the internet - get the IP addressing set up properly and then assign one system as a Hub and the other system(s) as a node and BAM, the two act as one (its a bit more complex than that). This design DOS NOT use IP trunking. It's just not the same thing. It is very important to remember that your system does not have to be convereted to a total IP solution to do IP networking. Also, listen to your telecom vendor over your IT guy. We're not bashing IT guys here; however, the expertise in telecom related data deployments are different than data only deployments. Telecom (voice) is real time - when I say "Hello", you should hear me say "hello" Many protocols will be used in different ways to deliver a best effort solution. Data only, as quick as it might look is not real time. If packets get lost for some reason, they can be retransmitted and reassembled and you'll never really see the dalay. In short, your telecom vendor and IT guy have to work together; however, you should listen to the telecom guy first when the stuff acts up. If he deferrs the issue to the IT guy because it is network related, don't start finger-pointing. Your patience is crucial.

3: If you are wanting to use IP trunking (like Vonage), most of these early deployment services are loop start anyway and don't require anything special in your switch to work. Just a Loop start CO port. Other IP trunking solutions that are starting to emerge are in the early stages and it does not sound like you are really in the position to be a guinipig. The new IP trunks are coming and will, as I understand it, have a significant impact on the way services are provided - but if you search Sundance, you will find practially no one who has seen them in large deployments.

4: Do you know the difference between H.323 and SIP? If you do not, you should search the internet for SIP training and H.323 traning. It will not take a great deal of time to get the basics down. But these are more than buzz words. For example, IP networking will probably be H.323. IP phone sets might be H.323 or SIP but SIP is known to have limited feature sets and "security issues". PC based SoftPhones will be SIP.

5: Don't expect VOIP to save you a ton of money right off the bat. The cost to implement it will not be "economical". It's expensive to do this stuff. Will it save you money in the future? It might. From my experience, you should use IP as long as it is the right tool for the job. IT people love the idea of VOIP as the latest and greates - and it's cool - and we can manage it in-house - and it SAVES US SO MUCH MONEY. All of these things might be true but they might not be true all at the same time. If VOIP is in you future, do your homework on your network as it stands right now and prepare that side first. Once you do a relatively large VOIP deployment and it sounds like crap, your only real solution is to address the network problems that are causing the problems. It will not help to start point fingers at your telecom vendor. You can also search the interet for VOIP deployment costs. People have studied this specifically and teh results are in. If your network is not up to snuff, take the cost of the VOIP telecom side of the depolyment and double it. That is more in line with your true cost.

This is a long post but I hope it will help you see not only some things that are directly related to your post but also how a good many of us see the future of thelecom, specifically VOIP. There might be other responses that are totally the oposite of what I have posted here. The truth might be right in the middle.

With a point to point T1 circuit, the Magixes would emulate a PRI between each other. That gives you 23 channels to divide up between voice and data transport, any way you want. Decide on the bandwidth you need, and away you go.

You will certainly need a local vendor, well versed in networking Magix systems, as that it totally beyond the scope of any question and answer forumn.

Anti: Tommy is suggesting a point-to-point T1 which will have a monthly cost associated with the circuits as opposed to example I gave for IP based networking. They are both Networking. If you have the data for the two sites already on a dedicated data circuit, this might be a good way to go. Tommy or Hal, can you do IP networking on the Magix?

Not directly, however you might find some success with an MCK Extender

https://www.mck.com/solutions_products/products/multi-user_extenders/

In my experience, had a lawyer's office using an extender with a Magix over a PTP T1, (so they had the best connection possible, not relying on Internet connectivity) finally reject the voice quality and put a networked Magix in the remote site.