OK, I have been doing Comdial and Nortel for about a 6 years now and have most of Comdials certs and dealer status with them. The company I am currently with I am in charge of building the telephony side of it so I decided it would be best to get dealer status one some other systems.

However, it seems that the major systems out there expect a great deal of hassle just to get information and they mandate a huge upfront cost. Now we are small company and can't spend 10k with a company where we dont even know the system.

Prime example was Tadiran! We have a client with the ice system and reading here it seems they make a decent product. I submittted a request to become a dealer and the first thing they demand is that we buy 7-10 grand of stock up front!!! Sales rep said they can't even get us info on the systems until we do that! What a joke!!! If any other type of product wanted us to resell THIER product and make THEM money they would at least get me as much info as possible up front.

Now dont get me wrong, i dont mind paying for certs, training eqip, etc...but that much is insane!

Does anyone else feel the way I do? Or am I just wrong in my thinking?

-Rage

I'm with you rage. I have always found it odd that manufacturers have almost no contact with the final customer. They market their product to us and we market the product to the customer. Look at the auto industry for example. Toyota runs TV advertisement and Joe Blow says ooh, I gotta have me a new Toyota, where is the nearest dealer. In our business Joe Blow needs telephones for his new office. He never says "I definately want a Nortel System, where is the Nortel Dealer. He says oh my, we gotta have phones. Then when we go see him or her the first time they have ever heard of Tadrian is when we mention it.If you are required to spend 10K to a manufacturer of a certain brand just to have the right to market their equipment, thats just goofy.

Keep lookin tho, not all companies are the same. Some make high quality products and bend over backwards to move them into the market.

Just an observation, have you considered NEC? We are Panasonic and at 1 time we looked at the DS1000/2000 as a lower cost unit for small companies. Systems are well thought out and seem to be feature-rich for the $. Since they're a Warehouse system, it's easy to get certified and cheap to get in, at least it was when we were looking. And no, I don't work for 'em and we decided not to carry an effectively competitive product. Now everybody else jump in with there suggestion/opinion and we can really make RAGE's head spin! John

grider you are right, that is why Voip is becoming more popular they advertise. rage thats one of the reasons I sell TransTel being a one man business I can't afford the time or expense of taking 2-3 weeks of training every time a new model comes out.

clightninghorse: I am actually already a NEC dealer and will be there for the launch of the new DSX here in Atlanta. I got in touch with them trough Famous Telephone Supply and the sales rep flew to Atlanta within a week and sat down with us for 3 hours describing the product. All i had to do was fill out a form and I was a dealer (since you dont need training in this system anyway).

I have checked into the dealer route. I am not opposed to someday becoming one. But, it will be a little while down the road.

As long as my business will function profitably without it, I am fine with not being a dealer.

I really don't want some of the headaches that could possibly come with it either. I have read about some of those headaches on this board. I have also seen 1st hand what can happen to some companies that rely primarily on being a dealer.
I have no problems with dealers at all. I know that some of the guys on the board are dealers, so please don't take offense :toast:

(since you dont need training in this system anyway).
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I think that $10K is the average for a stocking order when becoming a dealer.

In my opionion, this actually helps protect dealers. A company serious about becoming a dealer DOES have to make a significant investment in equipment and training. This helps protect all of the dealers from others who want to sell the product but can't give the proper support (electrcians, IT companies, trunkers, internet sales, etc...).

We sold Norstar for quite some time. I finally got fed up with all of the internet sites that could provide the equipment at my cost, so we finally became a Vodavi dealer.

Coming from the Manufacturers side for the past 15 years I would have to say nfcphoneman hit it on the nose. Manufacturers (at least the ones that have a conscience) typically don't want to stack dealers on top of dealers. Sure they increase their chances of getting a sale but they also end up decreasing their dealers profit margin which ends up resulting in a lot of unhappy customers. Now with that being said most Manufacturers either have a well know Distribution channel which sells to the smaller interconnects or they have a "Blind" distribution channel which they don't acknowledge but understand it is there.

Trust me if you want a product you can get it. If you want to be recognized by the Manufacturer then you either need to ante up or go through a recognized distribution network.

First off, we are also an IT company, which also offers Telephony and security, surveilance. Our customers love us for that and so did Comdial which we are a partner for.

I can understand the manufacturers wanting a good dealer base but how do they expect a small company to build on thier product if they can't even afford to get information on the systems.

I have no problem paying for training AND certifications, which I think could weed out the idiots, just not 10k for a product when i have no idea what it does. I dont even mind getting some stock up front once i can get some inofrmation on certsd. Tadiran wouldn't even offer info on thier systems without the investment.

It just frustating being a smaller company and not be able to do what is right because everyone wants us to sign a huge check first and I refuse to sell a system if I dont have access to the manufacturer!

Rage Maybe between web searchs and info from installers here, you could gain enough information about product line to decide.Seems like this is only option if you like their product.------John

Not worth my time really....If i can;t even get info I can go other routes! Think about it, if we demanded money up front before giving any info would we be in business?

Im working with NEC right now and so far am very happy with everything they are doing for me. Maybe I'll do strictly NEC and Comdial (or whats left of the Comdial product line).

Hay Skip: We met at the Quintum road show in Atlanta last month. That dealer thing is a tricky one. You make the commitment just to find out you've jumped in bed with an organization that may not have the same ethical positions you do. I signed up to be a dealer for two seperate products over the past five years just to tell them thanks but no thanks after reading the fine print (in the dealer agreement and the product technical docs). One of the things I really never look forward to is adding a new product line.

MARK3906: Actually Skip is the owner, Im Roy - Ops Manager/Telephony guy. I am realizing that some companies are worthless to have dealer status for, BUT, i think overall that being a dealer and getting certified can be a good idea. We'll see how NEC does. With the new DSX coming out and the Aspire system it should prove to provide something for all clients no matter the size.

Rage If a new customer orders a system from your company,how much upfront deposit required?----John

Please PM all payment info. We don't want to start bidding wars based upon geographic and local economic differences.

Rather Be Fishing , point taken,but i was not after money amount,just putting shoe on other foot so to speak,concerning Rage's post about having to pay upfront.------------John

DSX is an over the counter system and does not compare even closely to the Aspire in capability or quality. We sell Tadiran ICE and Coral, NEC and ESI. Quite honestly I would not ever consider an over the counter product because I cannot compete with un-certified people working out of their cars, nor would we want to. Yes, we sell phone systems but (more importantly) we also sell service and a partnership with companies we do business with. If someone is ONLY shopping price, I really don't want them as a customer and it's better to part ways before it even gets started. I don't find it odd that Tadiran would require you to buy 10K worth of stock before giving you pricing and capability. I would be surpeised they wouldn't even demo the system and let you see it and what it could do? I know of NO company (other than over the counter)that would give you pricing and all the specifics for any system we sell without being a certified dealer.

The only deposit we require is helf the ahrdware cost. and thats only after a demo AND getting them info.

Guess I'm the only one that has had issues with this idea so I'll continue what I've been doing and forget new products for now.

Thanks for the conversation though. You guys are great.

It seems that we are all taling about two sides of the coin - even though they are in-seperable, they are NOT the same thing.

Having a dealer do a sales presentation and demo, getting the potential customer information and then attempting to sell a system is not the same thing as a supplier/manufacturer requiring payment before specifics are made available.

General information is available on most any system that one could ask, detailed information can be found in a simple search requiring no more than one hour of ones time. Indeed, most any brochure can be had from a manufacturers or a distributors web site, and most manuals can be found with a little searching.

To be brought fully into the fold of a manufacturer, to know the in's and outs, the good and bad, requires that the manufacturer sets up safety measures. Let's all be honest every system in the world has short commings and failures, but for a manufacturer to have that information available to anyone willing to ask would be foolhardy, for them and their dealer base.

For a dealer to do presentations and offer sales and user knowledge is one thing, for a manufacturer to offer proprietary product specifications is another.

Happy sales to all though, dealers or not. In the end it just comes down to making the customer happy with their choice!

Steve

ESI makes things a little easier, and I think they've come up with a good plan. Send a tech to school ($xxx + travel) and buy their demo kit (awesome for sales staff!) for $xxxx to $xxxx depending on whether you get the standard or pro kit. No parts to stock, or other costs. You're equipment cost is based on how much you can sell.

This needs to be in the Installers category.
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