I have a customer that just remodeled an office. They have a nivce conference table that they ran some conduit from an overhead NEC projector down the wall in the concrete floor to underneath the table inside a base for the table. Now, we all told them that they needed larger conduit. They insisted that a 1/2 " conduit would work. The electrician put in a 1/2" and a 3/4". We have to have 5 cat5 cables into the area. And a VGA cable with audio. They do not want to use the wireless function of the projector (don't ask me why). So the question is: Other than the obvious ie: they are idiots, Do any of you know of a source of some Mini cable and connectors for getting this wired? I see that Hubble has a VGA connector that fits into their plates but what kind of wire to use. The customer had gotten a cable that had a large conntector on both ends with a pigtail that screwed onto it to make it work but it was to big to get down the pipe.
Thanks for any suggestions!

I would look at something like this Aten kvm extender to convert to cat 5. Also Kramer Electronics make some nice table boxes and modules.

The line I use is as follows:

"I'll be right back. I have to go get my time machine, then I'll be able to do exactly what you want done. Can you remind me exactly what day we had that discussion about pipe diameters, and number of wires required?"

We have to have 5 cat5 cables

What for?

Are you saying that you have both a 1/2" and a 3/4" for your use? If so I don't see a problem.

-Hal

Thanks John for the links I will check them out.

Arthur I wish I had thought of saying that out loud! (lol)

Hal,
The other requirements they had pretty much filled up both of the conduits. I think I can get in about two more cat5 cables and then that's it. I think I have found a Cat5 to VGA adapter.

Well, I don't know what those "other requirements" are but if it were me that's where I would start to look first. It seems to me that there must be an awful lot of nonsense going on to fill a 1/2 and a 3/4" conduit for one friggin' table. Is there an IT "professional" involved with this?

Once you can get a couple of CAT5 cables through there there are lots of options for putting VGA on them.

-Hal

Any shot at moving the projector to a ceiling mount ,and forget about the conduit issue. ?

When Arthur turns on his time machine ,you can bring it up at the meeting.

I don't think moving the projector will help. It's all got to come from the table. Been there, done that.

-Hal

There is a flat under carpet cable that you could use.
https://www.pearlone.com/2006/10/under_carpet_cable.html

Are the five CAT 5 cables being used for network for their laptops? Why not use fewer cables and use a switch at the table?

That's what I was getting at by asking what all those cables are for.

-Hal

You may want to take a look at these:

Wiremold thingies

For VGA you may want to get a pair of baluns, I think the Hubbell VGA jack is pass-through, which means you be stuck with bulky VGA cable.

VGA balun

I've used the previous model which needs STP, and it works just fine. You can use UTP with this one according to Muxlabs.

It's been a while, but I ran into similar problems with a conference room where I had one ¾" and one ½" conduit going into a split floorbox. Obviously one would be used for power, the other for a variety of video/audio options and controls:




Last year I added in an "eyeball camera" (bottom photo), managing to sqweak one last cable into the bundle. Zipcord was used to extend the camera's power brick to a closet about 25' away. The mount was custom-honed from a solid piece of aluminum.

So to answer to what could you possibly need that would fill a conduit? becomes obvious if your customer happens to be an engineer and bit of a showman.

Hey guys,

The projector is mounted in the ceiling. They already have a switch under the table. They needed/wanted voice as well on the cat5. The carpet is glued to the concrete floor. The projector has a wireless adapter and a USB that they could use, BUT they want a wired connection. The problem is , is that they micro managed the whole installation and $$$%%^cked it up in many ways. I have found some CAT5E to VGA adapters I can get a couple of cat5 or 6 cables through.

I would be careful with "adapters". You need baluns between different media, I hope that's what you're refering to. Also keep in mind that many of the newer projectors are networkable. Not just the the control signaling, the actual content can be pushed to a projector from a PC or other device on an ethernet network. I've also seen add-ons that allow non-network projectors to get the functionality.

As a matter of fact the projector is on their network. And this is a new NEC projector, but the IT director is being an ass. The adapters I found claim to work over 100 feet. One of them says it will work over 400' I only need about 30

the IT director is being an ass.

Ah Ha! I smelled it! The ONLY way that could get screwed up so badly is with a geek involved.

-Hal

Yeah this is the guy that wondered why we didn't just cut out the "curves" in the pipe so that we had only straight runs that way the cable could go through without getting caught in the bends! He had to be told "twice" that we would have to cut out the floor and the wall in order to do that before it dawned on him what we were saying. I think sometimes I need to apply Hal's closer when I run into a customer like that. Thanks for the suggestions guys!

Leave it to someone who has no clue to come up with the best solution.

The IT guys only an ass because he knows he f$#ked up. IMHO

The IT guys only an ass because he knows he f$#ked up.

I doubt that. They are always right, just ask them.

Yeah this is the guy that wondered why we didn't just cut out the "curves" in the pipe so that we had only straight runs that way the cable could go through without getting caught in the bends!

I would have told him to go back and play with his keyboard while he is still conscious.

-Hal

Unfortunately he is the one to sign the check!

I don't work for idiots. One customer told me to "work closely with my computer guy" and they wound up looking for another telecom guy. True story. They are nothing but trouble.

-Hal

Somehow I got that impression of you Hal,(that you don't take much $hit. Unfortunately for our industry it is getting more and more IT oriented, not much we can do about that.

Agreed, and I was going to say that we both need to learn to work together. But that's hard to do when most of them and their employers have little respect for us and it's that attitude that sticks in my craw.

In your case all it would have taken is for the IT guy to have asked for your input during the planning stages before the floor box was installed. But there is usually a big ego that fuels control and ignorance so that never happens and you have the result.

-Hal

I'm gonna go ahead and chime in here, and I ask that no one take this personally or as an insult. I fully realize that not doing the work you guys do pretty much disqualifies me from being here in the first place. But after 28 years as a programmer, I have to throw myself in the IT category.

So here it is, not that anyone should particularly care. It's the generalization of IT people that bothers me. Hal, you yourself have requested some help setting up your web site, yet it would be insulting, foolish and just wrong for me to reverse the roles of IT professional and Telecom professional, and then apply the comments made about IT people to those in Telecom. But I can promise there are those in IT who might look at your web development work and .... make comments. I'm not singling you out, and I realize there is a big difference between tinkering with something that can only impact one person vs. tinkering/installing something that can affect thousands, or more.

Which leads me to believe that what everyone is really saying is that people who don't know what they are doing shouldn't do it, depending on the scale of the thing (which is what I run through my "interpretation filter" and therefore don't take any of it as an insult).

The real problem (IMO) is that companies can't seem to seperate data from voice, or more to the point, the physical infrastructure required to support both systems from the PC's/servers and the software that runs upon them. After 28 years, I can pretty much assure you that no "IT guy" volunteered to make these messes; someone in management with no clue gave the order.

Also, remember that IT is a very broad field, I could list at least 10 sub categories of IT, and there are probably upwards of 40. Within the programming domain alone, there are at least 15 specialties.

Regardless, the fact that people in IT make the messes you guys have to clean up doesn't make them idiots, in their own field they are more than likely quite good.

Again, no offense meant to anyone.

Respects,
Matt

Matt, I actually have a great deal of respect for what those accomplished in the field of IT can do. I do not hesitate to defer to them when I'm confronted with something in that area that I don't feel I am competant to handle, and that is pretty much everything beyond the basics.

I can only speak from my own experiences, and what I've seen is that on the other side of the coin that professionalism and respect has rarely been reciprocated. I have been subjected to everything from back stabbing and customer stealing to being treated like the hired help. I have become very leery of turning my back on them.

I'm happy with what I do and I'm not interested in being a computer jockey. I'm happy to have somebody else who is qualified handle that part of the job. If only they would stick to what they are qualified to do and not what some job description or employer says they should be doing we would all get along much better.

-Hal

Agreed, and well put.

Respect, courtesy and professionalism are traits that sadly enough seem to no longer be in fashion.

If you saw the 66 blocks and switch/data cabling at my office .... you'd know I'm the first to admit that people should stick to their realm of expertise.... man it's a god awful mess. Not as bad as some pics I've seen here, but far, far worse than what you guys were able to walk me through in my own home install.

I've tried to live by "do it right the first time, or don't do it at all".

Nowadays most people run with "get it done now, even if you don't know what you are doing - just make it 'work'".

Just a lack of respect for people, skills, trades, and most importantly the work to be done all around.

But hey... if we put that aside for a minute... (at least I know it's true in my case).... if it weren't for all the people doing things wrong the first time... both my workload and pay would be much less.

Funny thing is with programming... (and this is true of most all programmers I've ever known, including myself).... they look at their own work 3 to 6 months after doing it and say "what a mess.... what the h*** was I thinking when I did that?

I use the Muxlab baluns for VGA and also for component video w/mono audio (high-def). They work really well. VideoEase 500040 paired with 500042 for VGA and VideoEase 500052 (two of them) for component with mono audio. https://www.svideo.com seems to keep these in stock normally. The nice thing about it is if you have open plenum ceilings, you don't have to get rated super-expensive VGA or component cables - just use plenum rated CAT5E.

I have seen bad work from both sides...phone guys, IT guys, you name it...I had a very clean cabling install put to spaghetti by a customer's IT and phone guy...
I think we took this off topic

Yes we have.

Anybody else have any advice or suggestions for Ed's problem?

-Hal

The problem I have with a lot of I.T Guys is that they will tell you they know "I.T."

Its not until you get them on a customer site, & things start going wrong that they say things like;

"oh I'm more of a software guy, I don't actually have much experience with routers"

or

"I only deal with issues before the firewall"

Problem is I.T. is such a huge area of skills, nobody can know it all, but most I.T contractors I have worked with will tell you they do.....

As Ed's problem is the result of the IT situation, it should be part and parcel of this thread. The CG was incapable of providing adequate infrastructure but, instead of correcting it himself, he dumped the problem on Ed.

Matt, you are correct....the old CG joke is "How many computer programmers does it take to change light bulb?" The answer, of course, is it can't be done as it is a hardware problem. To many different areas of IT, too many many CGs that "know-it-all". Hal's evaluation of the situation of CGs is correct.

As far as Ed goes, as long as you believe the CGs are your boss, they will be. Tell the idiot to use the wireless, bill him, and if he tries getting stupider than he already is....file a lien. Who needs an idiot like that?

The answer to the original question is to use something we used to call "FM" (F'ing Magic)

...or how about a fiber optic cable?

Well again, if you can snag 1 or 2 of those cat 5 cables you should be OK with a VGA adapter for video and an adapter for audio. I would look at Extron's site. They make just about anything for video applications.