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I haven't paid much attention to any new regulations that are in place regarding these outfits. I made a couple of mistakes that I'm really beginning to regret and could use some guidance:

1. I missed a credit card minimum payment by 14 days. I've been receiving dozens of calls from India since then, despite the fact that I sent them a double payment just to shut them up. They still keep calling and they spoof their number to look like they are calling from all over the country. Half of the numbers are fake. In some cases, I get two calls at a time from the same people who can't speak English so badly that I have to hang up. They always call from numbers in different US cities. Yesterday (Sunday), I received a record 43 calls from them. It has gotten so bad that we don't even answer the phone anymore.

2. I forgot to renew my numbers on the federal "Do Not Call" registry. About a month ago, I did so. The problem is that it takes 30-90 days for the lists to get to the right places. Since my expiration, I receive no fewer than a dozen calls a day from telemarketers and surveyors. The surveyors are by far the most pushy; often calling two at a time and many times per day.

I need to know the following:

1. What days/hours are permitted for this activity? I'm getting calls from 7:00 AM to 9:30 PM, seven days a week.

2. What can a person do when someone calling from India just can't be understood? I can keep hanging up, but they keep calling back.

3. Predictive dialers: Many of these places are using them and when I answer, I'm prompted to "please hold for a representative". One time, I waited almost two minutes before hanging up. Is there a legal limit regarding the use of these things when they clearly don't have the staff to handle the calls?

4. Since the Indian credit card people spoof their numbers with many of them being fake, what recourse do I have? They use a different number every time, so it isn't going to really help to try to use *57.

5. Where do I start with my complaint process?

My wife is very close to simply having our land lines disconnected since they are out on the telemarketer's lists now. It is pretty sad that we are paying $75.00 a month for lines that we can't even answer anymore. We leave the night service on 24/7 so that auto attendant gets them because we are so sick of the phones ringing constantly. I need help.
9:00pm is the cutof. If you have purchased something from the company or requested info they can call you. The law only applies to "cold calls". Also non-profit and political( guess why) are exempt. you can add your cell to the list as well, but it does take time.
If I find its one of the predictive dialers I will NOT stay on the line. If you can have a live body talke to me, I am not interested.

I find even some of our Southern friends are hard to understand.

I'm even getting credit calls for someone who used to have our number. they don't believe I have no idea who she is. Even when I tell her she never lived at this address.
Ed, this link might be of some help:

https://www.panix.com/~eck/telemarket.html

40+ calls a day seems like harassment to me... perhaps an avenue to explore there if they are all from the same company.

1) I think the timeframe is 0800 to 2100 local time.

2) I find setting the phone down and walking away works pretty well. Don't use expletives: telemarketers are used to them, and if the call is recorded you could wind up on the short end of the stick. Telling them the person they are trying to reach is deceased worked well for me before I was on the DNC list.

3) No idea

4) This thread might help you with the call spoofing.

5)You can file complaints with the FCC here

For a temporary fix and peace of mind, you could turn off the ringers and check the caller ID once in a while for important calls. I turn off all the ringers at night, not because I get telemarketer calls, but because we get a lot of wrong numbers at o-dark thirty.

In a case like yours, going out to the NID and removing a wire or two wouldn't be beyond me...

Jack
I keep a policeman's whistle by the phone. Sometimes I feel a need to blow it into the handset. It can't be good when you're wearing a headset.

For those that are shocked by my behavior, let me just say this:

You've really got to piss me bad off to get the whistle.

There haven't been many who've gotten it, but there have been some.


Sam
Quote
Originally posted by Fletcher:
...In a case like yours, going out to the NID and removing a wire or two wouldn't be beyond me...
Jack
Better yet:
1) install cut off switches on your personal lines. I did that with the kids line years ago...had to; the drop was getting too short from all the cutting laugh
2) Install a TAD on the line with a message referring your calls to your cell (but don't give the number) something like "please call my cell phone...you know the number".
I'm just letting my auto attendant answer all calls now where most callers just hang up, especially the predictive dialers. I just checked the SMDR report for my calls today since 7:07 AM and there have been 31 calls. It is a shame that the only way people can reach me anymore at home is to call my cell phone.

I'm a hostage in my own house by these people from halfway around the world who can't even understand when I tell them to pack sand.
The Federal Trade Commission and the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act are what you should be looking at.
https://www.junkbusters.com/telemarketing.html

and

https://www.junkbusters.com/script.html

40+ calls a day x $500 fine/per... you could retire in a month. Find the inner lawyer in you, Ed. Or, like Sam mentioned, a whistle.

Jack
Ed - what state are you in? I hate lawsuits and dealing with attorneys, but I actually sued two junk fax companies in California and won both times - $2300 the first time and $1100 the second (minus attorney fees). The attorney I used does nothing but suits over calls like what you are receiving. It is definitely $500 per occurrence so save those caller ID records. Both losers were more afraid of setting a precedent by losing and having the same attorney come back and sue them again on behalf of many clients. The second one I appeared in court and they tried to lie and I "baffled them with technical bs" so they settled. I used to get junk faxes at 3:30 in the morning and after e-mailing and calling and sending written communication they still didn't stop. It is difficult to sue in one state if the caller is from another state, I know that.
Unfortunately for those calls from India I would stay on the line to determine who they are working for. If this is a credit card company you would send them a certified letter demanding that they cease and desist. Check with your state as to the proper procedure. If they don't then you can take legal action.

Also, what's stopping you from changing your number to something non-published? I have done that and actually kept the old number to give out to those who require it. It doesn't ring but I will call out on it for those who want you to call from your home phone number like to activate those replacement cards or customer service. That way they will never get your real number.

-Hal
That's just it: These people aren't in the United States at all. They are using VOIP and spoofing fake numbers with US area codes to make the calls look legitimate. I would imagine that suing a company in India would be nearly impossible.

I'm still amazed that my credit card company sold my information over a payment that was two weeks late. What appears to have happened is that being one of the banks in peril (no name necessary), they just hire these people to make their collection calls for a bounty. It used to be that if your payment was late, you just paid a late fee on the next bill. Not any more. They are hiring these Baghdad Bounty Hunters on day one.

Oh and Hal, I have a very good number (actually both of them are, -4848 and -0707) and I'd hate to give them up due to my having landed on a junk salesman's list. There must be a way for the general public to be protected from having to take such drastic measures.

I think it sucks that we are even having this discussion at all. It disgusts me the way companies abuse the relationships with their customers or the amazing technology of telecommunications to sell people crap that they do not want to buy.
I would imagine that suing a company in India would be nearly impossible.

Ed, they are working for somebody here like Chase, Amex, Capital One, etc. They are the ones you would sue.

-Hal
this is from the FTC web page (https://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/consumer/credit/cre18.shtm) and may help:

Where do I report a debt collector for an alleged violation?
Report any problems you have with a debt collector to your state Attorney General’s office (www.naag.org) and the Federal Trade Commission (www.ftc.gov). Many states have their own debt collection laws that are different from the federal Fair Debt Collection Practices Act. Your Attorney General’s office can help you determine your rights under your state’s law.

It also says that you can send a registed letter (with receipt of delivery) to the collection agency asking them not contact you further.
I'm still amazed that my credit card company sold my information

Ed, the financial industry is SCUM, ALL of it! They took advantage of everybody for their own gain and paid off and blackmailed the government to get their way. Now they are crying the blues because the s*** hit the fan. They deserve whatever crap we can give them.

Change your numbers, get some other nice ones. I did and I didn't have any of the problems you have.

-Hal
Ed: All I can tell you is get their manager on the line, figure out who they are subcontracting for, then tell them you will be filing a harassment complaint with the FTC against their client.

Stopping a collections call is tough stuff. The laws on what they can do all vary by state. Some places it's no more then 2 calls a day, other places it's one call every 3 hours, etc. If it's wrongful collections (in your case) then you definitely need to play hard ball with them. Call and open an FTC complain for EVERY call they place to you. Record these calls as evidence. Document them in your CDR's/etc. Then go find a hungry lawyer and tell him he can keep 80% of whatever he gets you to sue the client. I'm a big fan of the idea that stupidity should be painful.

As far as the regular telemarketer/cold-calls, they are supposed to scrub their list every 30 days. So if it's been more then a month, start telling them you are on the FTC DNC list, and that you would like to know the Company Name, thier name, and the company contact information to file an FTC Complaint. Again, record it and make records. File an FTC complaint for every call.

For cold-calls, most states don't allow you to call before 9am or after 9pm, and some allow you to call half the day on Saturday. There are also all kinds of different laws and regulations regarding state observed and federal holidays too.
I got tired of the dinner time salesmen years ago before the Do Not Call....so I call forwarded my number to my defunct competitor's number with the lady that tells you this is not a working number. After about 30 days they quit calling....and if the CID is unknown to me, you go to Helen....you know, you go to Helen Waite..... laugh
I used to recieve the travel fax to Cancun for $199 for 6 days including air fare. You know what I am talking about. I have asked them to stop sending but they kept coming 2 to 3 a week. One day I was feeling a little ornery and devised a little plan. I have 4 lines into the business. I put their 800 number on a speed dial button and placed a call. When they answered I said please hold, and placed a call on line 2. I did this for about a half hour. The same guys kept answereing the phone and kept sreaming at me to get a life. I fianally talked to one of them and told them to remove my number from their fax list. I told him if I get another fax I will take the gloves off next time. I don't know if it worked but I had a smile on my face the rest of the day. And I know it cost them some money on the 800 number.

Mike
If only you could get their fax number and send them a fax on a loop of paper that says remove my phone number, xxx yyy zzzz, from your list or meet me in court, your choice. smile John C.
I have done this before....
Fax them back and loop a black peice of paper...waste all their ink...

Sure, they may be using fax servers, but it will tie their lines up for a bit
They did not list a fax number.
I have sent faxes back as well. When I have sent faxes back I had the person calling me whining that my fax was tying up their fax line. I replied no I am just returning what you sent me. No more faxes from that comapny!!

I love the 800 numbers.

Mike
Well, I've done something similar to Spuds. I've recorded their pitch before, then programmed their call-back number into my dialer and dialed back at 'em. Whenever their agents would pick up it would dump them all into the same conference. It was hilarious to hear these agents yelling at each other thinking that someone else was "stealing my lead!" That went on for about 30-minutes with about 600 lines firing at them.

It was easy to see that their call-back # was only a single T1 so I changed the message to the reading of the constitution and had it call them some more with just 30 lines.

Finally I changed the message to me saying "Remember, when someone tells you to remove them from your list and not call them back, what do you think you should do?" and let that run.

I got a call the next day from their IT Director saying that they will permanently remove me from any of their lists. Cause remember, they contacted me, left me a message, and even said to call them back as much as I wanted that there were agents standing by! I just felt like talking to them all, at once, for about 2 hours smile
James, if you ever get tired of what you're doing for a living, you could start an new business doing exactly that for any of us! laugh You the man!
Aaah - The "Cancun" junk fax. How I tried to get those people to stop. My California attorney told me it was impossible to sue them in Florida. Another thing they do is subcontract to the call center. In the mortgage refinance heyday, I got a lot of those too.
How about when you get credit card offers every month from the same company......just send the postage paid envelope back with nothing in it.
Maybe I'm paranoid here, but have you checked your credit report? Is it possible that someone stole your identity and is going on a shopping spree, and it was coincidence that it happened after the late payment? I'd pull your credit report(s) if I were you just to be safe.
James, you are the man!


Quote
Originally posted by bfdatacom:
How about when you get credit card offers every month from the same company......just send the postage paid envelope back with nothing in it.
It's much more fun to send them credit card offers from competing companies or other junk mail you get. I don't get a lot of junk mail these days. laugh

Jack
Quote
Originally posted by hawk82:
Maybe I'm paranoid here, but have you checked your credit report? Is it possible that someone stole your identity and is going on a shopping spree, and it was coincidence that it happened after the late payment? I'd pull your credit report(s) if I were you just to be safe.
That is an excellent question and avenue that I should explore. Last month, I received a letter telling me that my car loan application had been declined. I haven't applied for a car loan in years. The lender chalked it up as a mistake since they participate in the "Lending Tree" program and they do occasionally have these issues. That would explain the ridiculous number of calls I receive. I sure hope that is not the case, but thanks for the suggestion.
Ive been thinking a lot about this lately since recently i have been receiving calls on my cell phone for some online college enrollment. How they got my number, i have no idea, but i know this is just the beginning since those lists are bought and sold.

I would love to see a website dedicated to posting personal phone numbers, residential and cell of the CEOs who operate and run these services. That way we can call them personally and asked if we could be removed from their fvcking dialers.

I also think cell carriers should allow us to have block list options free of charge since we are paying the tab.
BTW,

If you get a call from a third party mentioning your car's warranty has run out and this is your last chance to renew, don't believe them. You have plenty of time, they've called everyday for the last year and left the same message.
Rusty

I also get that same message on the car warranty, and I to wish it would run out and the would quit calling. I have also been getting a ton of calls telling me about all of the goverment grant money I should apply for. The number is spoofed on the caller ID so no return fun for me. If I can find these numbers I think I will hire James out for a couple of hours of return call fun.

Mike
James,I don't think it would be in-appropriate to give us an idea of the cost of an hour or two of 'retribution calls'. Esp if you put it in Phone Booth or Installers. OR hey, why not the For Sale thread! smile John C.
Hawk82, for Ed's sake I hope you are incorrect.

I love the vehicle warranty people:

"This is an important message! Your vehicle's warranty is about to expire, blah blah blah...

{operator comes on line}

"May I have your name?"

~~ "No."

*operator hangs up on me*

Either this scam is getting old or my repeated bluntness has resulted in an internal DNC memo for our phone number.

Jack
Actually because of the overly rampant abuse of call centers using programs like the vehicle warranty thing the FTC has made all non-human answered cold-calling illegal come september.

So, expect it to get worse before it gets better as everyone attempts to "cash-in" before they are forced to find a different business model.

As far as a retribution dialing it's not a service I really plan to offer. As far as money goes it cost me about $100 in long distance fee's and 3 hours of my time. 2-hours of it was spent laughing.
Quote
As far as a retribution dialing it's not a service I really plan to offer. As far as money goes it cost me about $100 in long distance fee's and 3 hours of my time. 2-hours of it was spent laughing.
So this was time well spent. :toast:

Mike
Quote
Originally posted by Kumba:
A...2-hours of it was spent laughing.
Sooooo, would you charge for the laughing time? Or would that be a "Fringe Benefit" of your job? Then again that might be considered a "Taxable Benefit".
:rofl:
Is it possible that someone stole your identity...

Wow, ya think some poor guy stole Ed's identity? :scratch:

-Hal
Quote
Originally posted by hbiss:
Wow, ya think some poor guy stole Ed's identity?

:scratch:

-Hal
If they did, then they are quickly finding out that the joke is on them!
The laughing was a fringe benefit. smile
Hmmm, you know $100 seems QUITE reasonable. There've been times I would have been up for $200!
You and me both, Ed. John C.
According to www.donotcall.gov

"Your registration will not expire. Telephone numbers placed on the National Do Not Call Registry will remain on it permanently due to the Do-Not-Call Improvement Act of 2007, which became law in February 2008. Read more about it at https://www.ftc.gov/opa/2008/04/dncfyi.shtm"

Therefore, if you were previously registered on the Do Not Call list, you still are.

Registrations of active numbers never expired, since the listings were made permanent prior to the expiration of any listings. Numbers that have been disconnected or reassigned are purged from the list.

Any telemarketing calls from companies that you do not have a business relationship with, or have not requested contact from, are illegal, with the usual exceptions for non-profits and political bottom-feeders.
I agree with my leader hbiss, take out your rage on the credit card co. Cancel the card and make sure they know why you did it.
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