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Posted By: telecom guy10 Systems For Beginners - 04/09/10 04:58 PM
Hello all,

I have been looking around the web as well as eBay at the many different types and brands of phone systems. If I were to buy myself a phone system (I'm looking for recommendations), here is what I would need:

- 1 to 3 CO line capability

- at least 4 extension capability

- Caller ID capability

- easy programming (I don't mean plug and play, just looking for something simple to start out with)

- standard telephone capable

- customizable line selection/feature buttons

- customizable ring tones (proprietary phones of course)

- handsfree intercom (ex: announcing a call through a phone's speaker)

- music on hold (with headphone jack input)

- programmable extension numbers (preferably up to 4 digits, such as x8775)

- attendant/operator extension that can be programmed as intercom ext. 0 (all incoming calls ring here first, then are transferred to the desired party)

- automatic line selection

- paging capability with tone before announcement (and headphone jack input)

- active line privacy (so no-one picks up when the line is in use)

- intercom caller ID (this is not needed, and if the system uses a different ringtone for intercom calls this is not necessary)

- phones MUST use RJ11 cords (I can't remove the existing RJ11 jacks in place), 4 pair RJ11 cords are OK

I know there are a lot of systems out there, and I'm having a hard time figuring out what brand/type of system I would like to work with. If anyone has any recommendation of what kind of system I should look into or consider, any input would be appreciated. :thumb:

Thank you,
telecom guy10
Posted By: justbill Re: Systems For Beginners - 04/09/10 05:01 PM
X16 XBlue will fit most, but not all, of your requirements. The big plus is you can use your existing wiring for the most part.
Posted By: telecom guy10 Re: Systems For Beginners - 04/09/10 05:14 PM
Thanks! Unfortunately, ( since I'm going to buy my equipment from eBay) the prices for even a single XBlue telephone set run way above what I'm able to spend. I have been looking at systems from Avaya (thanks Ed) as well as Nortel Meridian, Comdial Impact and Executech, AT&T/Lucent Merlin and Spirit systems, Panasonic Ease-A-Phone systems, Toshiba Strata systems, and a few others here and there, as there are an abundance of these systems at low prices on eBay. Do you know of any other systems that you can recommend I take a look at?
Posted By: metelcom Re: Systems For Beginners - 04/09/10 07:03 PM
Watch out what you buy from places like eBay much of the stuff is sold there cheap for a reason. Save your pennys and try something like this
Posted By: telecom guy10 Re: Systems For Beginners - 04/09/10 07:08 PM
Thanks for the link! I will keep that one in mind it looks like a pretty good deal.
Posted By: RATHER BE FISHING Re: Systems For Beginners - 04/09/10 07:20 PM
If you need caller ID ask for the price to upgrade to a CI card instead of LS/DS card.
Posted By: telecom guy10 Re: Systems For Beginners - 04/09/10 07:29 PM
Good point. Thanks!
Posted By: dexman Re: Systems For Beginners - 04/09/10 08:04 PM
The Avaya Partner ACS meets most of the requirements.
Posted By: telecom guy10 Re: Systems For Beginners - 04/09/10 08:22 PM
I like the Avaya systems- but what requirements doesn't the average Partner meet? Personally I would like to get a Nortel, Comdial, Panasonic or Avaya/AT&T/Lucent system because information on them is so widely accessible. Thanks for your reply!
Posted By: mforrence Re: Systems For Beginners - 04/10/10 07:41 AM
@telecom guy10 - Partner doesn't support programmable numbering
Posted By: dexman Re: Systems For Beginners - 04/10/10 08:08 AM
Also...the extensions are only 2 digits long. Still, the Partner ACS R7 or R8 (current release) would be a fine system to learn.

The Merlin Legend and Magix as well as the IP Office are much harder to program so it might be best to zero in on the Partner ACS.
Posted By: telecom guy10 Re: Systems For Beginners - 04/10/10 10:05 AM
Thanks for the recommendations. It seems like Avaya Partner is my best shot- there are a lot of people on here who install Avaya systems so it would be easy to get quick help.

Is this a good example of what I should get:

https://cgi.ebay.com/Avaya-Lucent-P...main_0?hash=item35a878de90#ht_500wt_1182

Thanks everyone! :thumb:
Posted By: mdaniel Re: Systems For Beginners - 04/10/10 11:01 AM
Quote
Originally posted by telecom guy10:
Is this a good example of what I should get:

https://cgi.ebay.com/Avaya-Lucent-P...main_0?hash=item35a878de90#ht_500wt_1182
The system your looking at there wouldn't be worth the shipping cost.
Posted By: telecom guy10 Re: Systems For Beginners - 04/10/10 01:04 PM
mdaniel: I was considering that myself- but everything in the auction is obviously in good and working condition and it comes with everything I would need, and the Avaya manuals are available online on their website. Also the included cabinet leaves the option for me to purchase additional feature cards that I can just insert into the carrier. I have about 10 other bookmarks of other systems, and I'm going to take and compare them together. Thanks for your input!
Posted By: justbill Re: Systems For Beginners - 04/10/10 01:13 PM
If you can get it for next to nothing than it'd be fun for you to mess around with. You're right about Avaya they've always been very generous about sharing system information on line. Most do not. I do agree with Mike, if they want an outlandish amount to ship it, which happens a lot on Ebay, it wouldn't be worth it.

I know you looked for free earlier, but if you have a few bucks to spend why not try again in buy/sell to see if a board member has something they can work out with you. It would be a whole lot safer than Ebay.

Actually X16 is a nice little home system, I think your folks would like it, maybe you could talk them into it? Go to their WEB site and print out a a brochure.
Posted By: JordonJ Re: Systems For Beginners - 04/10/10 02:05 PM
I don't know how inexpensive it would be, but the TransTel, Lynx needs minimal programming out of the box...the ultimately unsinkable partner is another good one.
Posted By: telecom guy10 Re: Systems For Beginners - 04/10/10 02:21 PM
The only problem with XBlue in my opinion is that the telephones are very brightly colored and it would definitely not get approval from Mom. A major part of my system preference is based on the designs of the telephone sets, and I can't say I particularly care for their designs. I personally, as much as this may sound silly, prefer the more bland and basic proprietary phones, such as the AT&T/Lucent/Avaya MLS phones.

Justbill: I am still trying to convince my dad to let me buy a phone system at all, and he's pretty closed-minded when it comes to giving out our address/personal info on the web. He has let me buy phone equipment (my first system, the 1A2) online before, and hopefully I can re-convince him. Thank you for the suggestion regardless.

JordonJ: I will take a look at TransTel online. Thank you for your suggestion.
Posted By: skip555 Re: Systems For Beginners - 04/10/10 02:37 PM
the Partner system you linked to or the Partner ACS that has been recommended will also work with single line phones so you can give mom a phone she likes (or she can keep using the one she has now )
Posted By: telecom guy10 Re: Systems For Beginners - 04/10/10 03:01 PM
Great! Thanks Skip! Do you know if that auction includes the special card you need for SD phones, or can you just plug it in into one of the extension ports on the main processor? Mom is insisting on keeping a cordless phone in the house :rolleyes: so I would have to be able to plug in analog phones. Also, since we subscribe to Caller ID, and the cordless phone system reads Caller ID, would the cordless phone still be able to receive the CID information through the phone systems without any special cards? Thanks for your input!
Posted By: metelcom Re: Systems For Beginners - 04/10/10 03:19 PM
Save your money and hang around here with this bunch and you will be able to learn a lot from the best in the business. Before you jump into getting a phone system you should be practicing your cabling and terminations. Pick up some 66, 110 and BIX blocks and practice, practice, practice. You can download many manuals to read and ask questions here. Once you get to know the other members and learn what they work with you will have a better understanding of what systems will fit your needs. I'm also sure that if you take your time and learn this industry the correct way there will be many members that offer to help you.
Posted By: justbill Re: Systems For Beginners - 04/10/10 03:39 PM
No special card need for digital or SLT ports will work with either. CID won't pass through to SLT's except on the latest versions. I'm pretty sure you need the correct module for caller ID period on the older systems need an E or EC on the end of the card number. Most of the phones on your link weren't display phones so again no CID.
Posted By: skip555 Re: Systems For Beginners - 04/10/10 03:42 PM
no special cad needed for SLT(single line telephones ) you can plug one in instead of a system phone or you can plug one into the AUX jack on the bottom of the phones (they would both share the same extension number and couldn't be used independently )

I know the older Partners didn't pass CID (caller ID ) info to SLT's I'm not sure about release 8
Posted By: justbill Re: Systems For Beginners - 04/10/10 03:46 PM
Also you'll need homeruns on all your wiring, the digital phones take two pair.
Posted By: telecom guy10 Re: Systems For Beginners - 04/10/10 03:55 PM
By AUX port you mean like the Data Port plug on a hotel courtesy phone? I'm sure Mom would give me a hard time if we couldn't get CID since we do pay for it... Would it cause problems to connect the cordless phone system to our home line before the system is, so that way Mom could have cID and I could have my system in place? This way I don't need two phones next to each other.

On another note, do Avaya phones use RJ11 on the system cards for connections? This is a must because I know Dad would definitely not approve of removing and replacing the existing jacks with an oddball plug that can only be used for system phones.

Thanks everyone!
Posted By: telecom guy10 Re: Systems For Beginners - 04/10/10 03:59 PM
Oops, looks like justbill and I posted at about the same time about the same thing. Justbill, I am not quite sure I understand what you mean by "homeruns on my wiring." Do you think you could clarify that for me?

Thanks!
Posted By: metelcom Re: Systems For Beginners - 04/10/10 04:54 PM
Homeruns are each phone has its own cable running back to the KSU. You need to learn a lot more before you are ready for a system but if you insist in getting something for your home then the Lynx system that JordonJ mentioned fits your needs and budget.
Posted By: dexman Re: Systems For Beginners - 04/10/10 05:47 PM
This would be an example of the Partner ACS processor that passes caller ID to single line telephones.

My thought would be to take a step back, decide on a particular system, gather as much information on the system as you can, read up on it (including required station wiring), write a coarse program for it, purchase the hardware and let 'er rip.

It wasn't unusual for Bell System technicians to daisy-chain telephone jacks together in homes....so you'll need to inspect the jacks & wiring to see if that is the situation in your house. If that is what you find, it will impact how you hook-up the system phones.
Posted By: dexman Re: Systems For Beginners - 04/10/10 06:08 PM
Add to the end of my post above the words "if you go with a Partner ACS and system phones".
Posted By: telecom guy10 Re: Systems For Beginners - 04/10/10 06:26 PM
The wiring in our attic is pretty simple. The wiring to the jacks is CAT5 and the white/blue blue/white pairs are used for tip and ring. All of the wires going to the different jacks around the house are connected at the same spot, and the incoming line cord from the NID is cut on the end, and the T wire is wrapped around all of the T wires for all of the jacks, and the R wire is wrapped around all of the R wires for all of the jacks. The wires are then covered by separate little rubber 'mittens'.

All I would have to do would to do is:
- figure out which cord goes to each jack
- label the port (ext.) the cord will be connected to
- put crimp RJ11 plugs on each of the wires from the jacks
- plug them into the system
- plug in the sets and set up the system

Is it OK (no harm to the system) to leave one of the jacks in the house connected directly to the home line so that Mom can have cordless phone, and not need to dial an access code (I know about automatic line selection, but it would probably be a little less complicated this way) to access the home line to make a call.

I could always just run the T and R from the system on the normal red and green pairs and take the direct line from the outside and send it in on the black and yellow pairs, and then splitting the wire and sending the normal T and R to the cordless system and the yellow and black T and R directly from the NID to a cID device.

Sorry if my explanation was a little confusing, but it's the best one I could put into words without physically showing!
Posted By: telecom guy10 Re: Systems For Beginners - 04/10/10 07:06 PM
About the Lynx system: I haven't been able to find really any information on these systems at all, so unfortunately I will have to cross that one of the list. Regardless, thank you for the suggestion.
Posted By: metelcom Re: Systems For Beginners - 04/10/10 07:51 PM
The Lynx is brand new I haven't even seen one yet. Its made for SOHO use here are the specs I can email brochure if you want one.

Analog CO Line = 6
VoIP Trunk Lines (SIP) = 4
Digital Key Station = 4
Analog Extensions with CID = 12
Auto Attendant, Operator Delay (2 Channels)
Voice Mail (All Extensions) (2 Channel) Yes / 2.5 Hr
RS232 Port
Battery Backup (Optional)
External MOH
KSU Dimension- L x W x H (mm) 290x230x76


telecom guy10 from reading this thread you are not ready for a system. Get yourself a couple 66 blocks and do some rewiring at your house. Punchdown all pairs of all wires down the right side of the blocks. Take your COL and loop it down the left side of blocks then add bridge clips to the pairs your phones are on. Once you get this all working then you can start thinking about systems. I do suggest doing this as if/when you try to put a system in it will make it easier for you to do one phone at a time so your parents won't lose all phone service while you figure it out. Summer is almost here start looking around at the telecom companies in your area and see if you can get a helper job.
Posted By: telecom guy10 Re: Systems For Beginners - 04/10/10 07:54 PM
That sounds good. I would appreciate it if you could email me the brochure. Thank you for the information.
:thumb:
Posted By: mingo1964 Re: Systems For Beginners - 04/14/10 08:33 AM
Adix vs will do all of what you want.Only need a single pair.Two analog ports Six digital to start with plus expandable.Up to six co lines.

One of the best voicemail systems out there for as small as it is.

The programming part can get to be a pain but not too bad.
Posted By: bluzman Re: Systems For Beginners - 04/21/10 03:31 PM
We sell DSX-40's with 3 phones installed for less than $XXXX. ??? And if I can master something most others can too.

Edit: To remove pricing.
Posted By: STS E Re: Systems For Beginners - 04/21/10 04:06 PM
Is pricing allowed on open forum ??
Posted By: MooreTel Re: Systems For Beginners - 04/21/10 04:11 PM
No it's not.
Posted By: STS E Re: Systems For Beginners - 04/21/10 05:53 PM
Thank you very much Dave. smile
Posted By: SUPERTECH2000 Re: Systems For Beginners - 04/22/10 10:30 AM
I think if I am reading your post correctly, you have all the WHT/BLU BLU/WHT pairs going to the same point. Each telephone station port needs its own 2-pair wire run from the telephone system to the station jack. 2-pair for an Avaya Partner ACS.
Posted By: bluzman Re: Systems For Beginners - 04/22/10 03:33 PM
Sorry folks....
Posted By: MnDave Re: Systems For Beginners - 04/22/10 03:53 PM
X16 Xblue may be ready to rise again on your radar. You can run up to 4 phones on a single shared pair and your Mom can still keep her cordless phone wired ahead of the system. When she uses it, the line lamp will show it too! Those X16 phone sets might grow on you and and the navigation button is similar to cell phones. As you are finding out, identifying the features you need rules out most of the cheap Ebay systems. That is why they are so cheap. If you were local, I would even just give you one of my old retired systems to play with. I don't even waste my time posting those types on Ebay that flood Ebay.
Posted By: telecom guy10 Re: Systems For Beginners - 06/03/10 07:22 PM
I know this thread is getting pretty old, but I thought you guys might appreciate an update:

Just bought a working Comdial Executech 2000 system (8 lines, 20 digital stations) from an electronics surplus dealer. They allowed me to plug it in real quick to make sure it worked and fired up ok. Before handing them any cash I of course did some research on my iPhone to make sure that the red LED indicator on the side being steadily on was a good sign. Turns it was, so here I am with the Executech system!

After buying the KSU, I paid a visit to another surplus place (this place was geek heaven, like an IKEA for nerds!) and bought a 66 block with four 25 pair Amp connectors on the back as well as a small black and white Sanyo CCTV camera, which I've hooked up to a small TV to watch the street.

All I've got left to get are the Comdial Executech proprietary phones.

I'm sure I'll be making a post with some questions in the Comdial section soon.

Thanks everyone,
telecom guy10
laugh
Posted By: BobRobert Re: Systems For Beginners - 06/03/10 08:02 PM
Quote
Originally posted by telecom guy10:
All I've got left to get are the Comdial Executech proprietary phones (no offers please) which I will acquire on eBay.

I'm sure I'll be making a post with some questions in the Comdial section soon.

Thanks everyone,
telecom guy10
laugh
I'm sure all the Comdial folks are eagerly awaiting all of your future posts on your soon to be aquired issues with your newly purchased ebay items. You may want to edit your previous post without the (no offers please). We really do like to help but don't forget the the "Buy/Sell Telecom Equipment" in the member forums section. You really do get what you pay for thru ebay.
Posted By: jwooten Re: Systems For Beginners - 06/04/10 05:05 AM
One of the good things about the 2000 series is the ability to program via terminal or laptop!
Posted By: Carl Navarro Re: Systems For Beginners - 06/04/10 06:56 AM
Quote
Originally posted by jwooten:
One of the good things about the 2000 series is the ability to program via terminal or laptop!
One of the good things about the 2000 series is the ability to program it from a terminal WITHOUT a manual :rofl:

Carl
Posted By: EV607797 Re: Systems For Beginners - 06/04/10 07:06 AM
Don't forget that if you don't have a DSS/BLF console to provide the required "C" buttons for programming, you'll have to use a laptop or terminal.
Posted By: Jim Bennett Re: Systems For Beginners - 06/04/10 07:39 AM
Just to add my two cents about phones for your system: The sponsors of this forum have refurb phones that may in fact be a far better deal than anything on the Bay. I do not work for them (honestly), I am only going on what I have heard from others on the forum who have purchased from them. Their refurb phones are just like brand-new-in-the-box phones.

Phones from a random Bay seller may work (or not), or they also may have been sitting in a puddle of something sticky...

Jim
**************************************************
Speaking from a secure undisclosed location.
Posted By: MnDave Re: Systems For Beginners - 06/04/10 07:57 AM
Quote
they also may have been sitting in a puddle of something sticky
help , I for one have to say, Sorry, :shrug: I for one would be taking one step back. As an earlier reply suggests, you would be way better off to check with the sponsor of this site for a used system. They are in a position to go that extra mile or two with you beyond just selling you a box. :dance:

Remember, the primary goal of this forum is to help end users understand the features of their systems and to point installers with general experience in the right direction for specific issues that they may not have had experience with. We cannot supply full Telcom 101 services but with a little diligent search through our archives, you will find greater detail info from time to time. wink
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