I am now, taking on work from a second National. I have bid on and failed to get the bid on the first national for travel to vancouver island British Columbia.

A bid came in for changing out a router at 75.00. I countered with 275.00. The round trip ferry cost is 135.00. The travel time is 5 hours round trip. I am being nice and charging 30.00 per hour one way ferry ride time plus drive at $75.00. With one hour of labor, that would come to total of 135+75+60= $270.00.

The agent countered with 200.00 final offer. That leaves me with being paid $65.00 for six hours of labor?

I called the head quarters to leave a message to complain about the added cost. Waiting there call back.

off course they get it , they bid cheap then look for the cheapest warm body they can find to do the work so they can bill it out

they dont care if you make enough to survive or what your competence level is they just care about getting the work done cheap enough that they can make money

subbing for nationals is not a very good business plan

They figure that with the state of the economy the way it is you must be living out of your van eating Ramen Noodles and will jump at any pittance they offer. If you don't fit that description they will keep looking until they find some sucker who does.

-Hal

Theyre getting worse and worse. I dont even bid on projects, only service work. Theres one up for bid now to change out scanners and Thin Clients at 9 drug stores scattered all over hell for the grand sum $260.00.I just tell them that whoever is putting prices on their jobs Must be smoking some pretty good s**t.

You must be very careful with Nationals.
We only do work for 3.

Only work for the ones that will pay normal rates and travel otherwise your just filling their pockets.

The bottom line is they can keep lowering the
price and someone will always take them.

Crosscom projects are extremely noxious like 8
small jobs at 8 locations for $240.00 no travel,yet they are taken.

This also goes to show why legitimate businesses have no business. What works for the nationals works for our customers too. Keep looking and some crack head trunker will be happy to do whatever the customer wants for a few dollars.

-Hal

Hal
True, very true.
Just lost a 11 location V & D to a trunk slammer who charged $XXX.00
Thats 22 cables plus jacks.

I had someone that wanted me to drive for two hours, 1 hour work, and only charge $95 total. I agree with what Hal said...

I only do work for about 3 nationals, and its pretty select stuff.

Not National-related, but in the same vain as this thread:

I was at a fancy Real Estate office build-out, installing the phone system (moved from their old office). I always ask if they have an IT guy to set them up (if not, I call in my buddy who refers me a lot of work. He is enterprise-level).

Realtor says "Yep...my IT guy is right there." pointing to the guy who was laying the tile (whose mother was assisting him, back-buttering the pieces).

I give up. :shrug:

These horror stories of getting offered $10.00, $30.00--whatever per hour for jobs is just crazy. Common sense tells you immediately that you can't work for that. We, like others here, only work for a few Nationals that understand what we do and how we do it and pay accordingly. Common sense, again. To even consider some of these offers is just plain crazy. If you want to talk to these people and have the time (I sure don't) have some fun and screw with their minds. You may get some frustrations out of you that way---but don't EVER take these guys seriously. JMHO

Sorry to not get back so soon. I misread the email, they were approving the 200 extra. This however, is unusall. There clients almost always, turn it down when I state "this is the cost to go to Vancouver island" so in the end, I did get what I asked for. I left at 4:15 am. Ferry left at 5:20 arrives at 7:20. Hustled to the site and got there at 8:10. Employee did not arrive till 8:35.

With lunch, total trip and labour was 11 hours. Job was less then a hour.

BTW, I am upping my rate to 300 or a little more for any job on the island within 30 min of driving. Ohh, and have a pre-made script of the cost break down instead of having to describe it all over again.

What if more of you started accepted these jobs and not show up...talking about the scum jobs..perhaps the customers would stop using these nationals. Ya know give them the run around...then you'll know who the customer is and see if they need to hire someone a little more reputable and you'll probably be able to beat their prices too and still come out smelling like a rose..Cut out that middle man.

So you do that "*" job and they decide to pay you in 90 or 120 days. Are you going to sue them, or just refuse to do their work?

The first option gets you paid in another 180 days, and the second gets you exactly what you started with, nothing.

Or, do you think the big guy wants to deal with 5000 1099's and 20,000 checks, plus finding and calling 5000 different vendors?

Instead, they don't call anyone, they just put it out on the web and it's fixed.

Yeah, I'll just bet we can bring Mr. Big to his knees. :rofl:

What are you trying to say Carl? :shrug:

-Hal

Hal, I'm saying that the big guy doesn't want to deal with a mom and pop operation times 5000. They call one source and the job is done. We have drug stores, department stores, and the like that don't deal with Joe Independant on a local level. They can't.

Just because you don't like dealing with Nationals, doesn't mean that someone else won't.
Then you won the battle, but lost the war.

You run your business the way you want. I prefer to pick and choose the Nationals and jobs I want, just as I would if they didn't exist. It makes us both happy.

Hal, I'm saying that the big guy doesn't want to deal with a mom and pop operation times 5000. They call one source and the job is done. We have drug stores, department stores, and the like that don't deal with Joe Independant on a local level. They can't.

I understand that and I know there are nationals for paging/music systems, security and locksmiths, electricians, plumbers etc. not just us. Funny thing is I never hear the horror stories from any of those trades. I have a locksmith friend who does work for nationals. They charge everything to their credit cards right away after the job is done, no BS, no paperwork nothing. I used to do work for one that maintained PA and music systems. Paid within 30 days.

Just because you don't like dealing with Nationals, doesn't mean that someone else won't.
Then you won the battle, but lost the war.

Dealing with nationals just because someone else will is a spiral to the bottom. I really don't know what war you are talking about. There will always be opportunists who will profit off the desperate and ignorant.

If you have agreeable relationships with some nationals then I say good luck to you. Just as I wouldn't condemn all nationals I wouldn't say all relationships with nationals are good ones either but the bad stories far outnumber the good. So I wouldn't use your experience to defend their existance or recommend that anybody do work for them.

-Hal

Like I said earlier, I do work for 3 Nationals, they pay in a timily maner. Others i've stopped doing work for because I was there bank. The ones I do work for help to fill in slow times.
It's a win win.

Continued..... They pay my prices and travel. I do discount rate a bit, not much.

About 1997 or so, I negotiated my National contract. My saving clause is the 20 mile trip radius. Sure, I give them a 20% discount on service rates, as opposed to 16 2/3% for all other Nationals, but, after 30 minutes or 20 miles, the meter starts :-)

It works out that I do my own county and the county to the north for no travel...not a bad deal because that's where the bulk of my cu8stomers are anyway, but any travel outside that radius is sort of a win-win because I'm getting reimbursed for my travel out of the zone.
My budget includes spending 20,000 miles for the vehicle anyway, so anything I get, trip charges, hourly wages, etc. offset the $10,000 annual expense. For the most part, the ends pulling at each other only becomes a factor in the summer season if I'm running service. Normally, everything is scheduled and works fine.

When the Nationals give you 20-30% of your business, it's hard to say you don't need them. Besides, with those accounts, I can always refuse a job if I have something else scheduled. You can't do that with your own customers. I remember back in the heyday, when some contractors were getting 90% biz from Nationals. Wow did they get a rude shock when the bottom fell out of the market!

So, how is that bad? Almost like 9 to 5 hours, steady work, and genuine overtime. Yeah. I'll still keep it.

Carl

About 1997 or so, I negotiated my National contract... When the Nationals give you 20-30% of your business...

Everybody correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think anybody here has a long term commitment with a national especially where they send you all the work they have in your area. If I was guaranteed a large percentage of jobs from them each week and was paid on time I would have a different opinion. But my experience has been that you will be one of many whom they call infrequently looking for the lowest price and probably wanting you to show up on their terms.

So we are talking apples and oranges and you sir are very much the exception.

-Hal

Well, I missed another chance to retire rich today. A national called me and said they were in dire need of someone to work on a cabling project tonight (9pm-6am)9 hours and 2 hours travel, pay $180.I was not surprised that they were in dire need.I figured after travel and gas I would have been down to about $15 an hour.Sad part is, thats about their typical wage, dont know hoe they ever get anyone.

They do in this area every time.

Sounds like a platform ticket.
They're likely not a "national" but someone who picked up a contract or work order pack in a area they have no business taking it in and are looking for a schmuck to make them money for doing nothing.

The real problem isn't them as much as the pinheads that will take these types of calls.

We work with nationals selectively, and get reasonable rates from them all.

The low ball garbage doesn't even get my attention other than the maybe a repair escalation because their 15.00 per hr knucklehead messed something up (these tend to be profitable heh)

This is a national outfit that has multiple cabling jobs for a major dept. chain( JCP) and they all pay the same thing.Theyve got several more on their bid list in my area. I often wonder why they dont understand you get what you pay for.For what they pay the quality cant be much.I also work for other nationals that pay a fair wage but it seems its getting harder and harder to get it.

Mind if I ask who?

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