I am seeking to either upgrade or replace my existing phone systems. I have 2 Merlin Legend Release 4.1 systems in separate facilities about 2.5 miles apart. Each location supports 25-30 phones but only the main location has a receptionist. We receive all calls at the main location and transfer calls to the other site over tie lines. We also have some off-premise extensions in place to support paging. The tie lines and OPX lines are supplied by a couple of multiplexers that I've attached to either end of a P-P T1.

One of my systems is beat. It's been exposed to widely varying temerature ranges, excessive dirt, faulty power...I don't think it's gotten toooo wet, you get the idea. Last legs is probably a generous assessment.

Because of the age of the systems, and the fact that it never really worked right, I went shopping. Having been an AT&T/Lucent/Avaya customer for over 15 years, I started there. The rep who showed up wanted to sell me their OfficeIP system. "So fancy!", I thought as he did his presentation. But pricey, and I didn't get a real sense of comfort from this guy that he really wanted to solve my problems. Perhaps had he spent some more time understanding my situation, but he was focused on his product.

I called in a vendor for NEC systems. They sell other brands too, but the NEC's are their focus. They recommend a NEC Aspire system for their ability to network and give me centralized voice mail via a Vangard 4-port VMS.

Dollars are less important to me than a system works well. Though, for reference, anything over $40K is going to be an extremely tough sell. I'm looking for suggestions on a good solid set of phone systems that will network well and allow the separation between the buildings to disappear as far as using the phones goes. I don't care whether it uses VOIP or tradiontal methods. I just need a reliable, manageable solution.

Anybody got any ideas?

You need to look at this purchase as a capital investment. 40k is not gonna buy you what you need IMHO especially networking and doing it the right way. You may want to seriously look as leasing with a dollar buyout OR fair market will allow you to not only depreciate the system for tax purposes but for business expense. Don't hamstring yourself for the next 10 years because you wanted to save a few bucks a month. Good Luck.

Comdial would be a possibility.

Well, if you're willing to go out on a limb, what do you think "doing it right" would cost? I won't quote you on the request for capital, promise.

And as far as Comdial, any particular model system in mind?

[This message has been edited by Wheels (edited December 10, 2004).]

NEC ASPIRE is the way to go..........

With a centralized VM? I beg to differ GS. I still have nightmares about customers bitching about callers thinking they are in limbo waiting to get to a mailbox. Have them demo it for you. I haver no problems with the NEC..hell we are a dealer. I would make damn sure you get it in writing that you can do what you want to do with NO exceptions or excuses. Make sure to flow chart how call handling will work and make them STICK TO IT! Including time to voicemail and getting a call through the network and powerfail. I prefer Tadiran I have also done ESI, Siemens, Lucent...yada yada yada. Every system has it's quirks. Some alot less..ie Tadiran aka Sprint Flexicom. Good luck..and remember it's easy to say you can do something and another to actually do it.

Wheels,
Have you looked at the new Telrad systems, they have come down on there prices and they will do all that you need and more. With your point to point it will act like one system, very smooth and rock solid. When they are ready it migrates to VOIP with no problem.



[This message has been edited by dtmf (edited December 11, 2004).]

Local vendor would probably point you towards at least FXII or MP5000. MP5000 will allow you to go VOIP down the road. Both network easily, also able to use 1 centralized Vmail. Going with VOIP at this point won't be as "transparent" as you may like.

Wheels I already dropped you an email, a VoIP solution would be my recommendation and that can be achieved in a number of ways. You say that the Merlin never worked right, Coral Tech is right that each system has it's pros and cons, how much traffic is pushed between the two sites? You could either go with a complete VoIP solution or use legacy Digital PBX switches with gateways, what I am saying is that you need a thorough site survey from a vendor that does care about your needs and will provide you with an honest cost effective solution (which may or may not fit within your 40K budget) rather than a salesman trying to meet this months quota.

------------------
Milestone Technologies
One stop solutions for all of your Telecom, Data and VoIP needs
www.milestone-technologies.com

Still looking here. Met with Milestone on Monday and looked at a pure VoIP solution. Neat. I gotta say it really appeals to me as an IT Manager. However, it doesl feel risky compared to traditional PBX/Key systems. I know our network is strong and also know how to strengthen it further. But network contention is death to VoIP phone systems (as I understand it) so I have to be concerned.

Meeting with another vendor who contacted me through this board today. We'll be looking at Avaya (again). I admit to being reluctant on this meeting but perhaps a different vendor will leave me with a better feeling for an Avaya solution.

I've also contacted Tadiran directly to recommend a dealer in my area. I'll keep this thread up-to-date as we work through the different products and see what's what.

At the moment, I'd have to say I'm leaning towards a pure VoIP solution. Probably because I understand the technology better. I built the network (well, gutted and replaced) at both of my manufacturing plants. It's grown over the years and not always as I would've done it, but you have to give your people the room to make their own mark. Regardless, IP networking is so simple that I have a hard time not seeing the advantages of the pure VoIP approach. And let's face it, that's where all the development is. The real question is whether the technology is ready to run on a netowrk that is constructed with (relatively) affordable switching and routing.

One of the cool things on the Tadiran system BTW is you can do both IP trunking and traditional so you have redundacy on a network.

Coral could you send me you rcontact info I would like to discuss Tadiran with you

------------------
One stop Voice and Data Solutions VoIP

One good thing about the comparison shopping is we will have a great opportunity to do an apples to apples comparison between Tadiran and Zultys for overall features, flexibilty and cost. Zultys also has analog trunking for backup and 911 dialing btw both at the switch and at the handset for remote users.

------------------
One stop Voice and Data Solutions VoIP

Tadiran dealer should be in later today. All-in-all I will have compared (in no particular order):

NEC Aspire
Avaya IPOffice
Avaya Merlin Magix
Zultys MX250
Tadiran ???

I have emailed Telrad and Comdial and am waiting for responses.

There's also a chance that I might take my Legend Release 4.1's and upgrade to the last Legend Release (7.something) and add some DS1 cards to improve the networking. This could buy me 3-5 years for VoIP to mature and could be dramatically less expensive than a new solution. We'll definitely have to dig deeper into maintenance costs and hardware availability/reliability if we go this route. This approach is popular with some and extremely distasteful to others in our executive group. It'll end up being a cost-over-time vs. benefit analysis.

Met with the Tadiran dealer yesterday. The solution to be proposed is a straight-up legacy application, pure nuts-and-bolts telephony. I like the approach and am looking forward to seeing the proposal. There's not a whole lot to say beyond that since we aren't a very complicated application. The best summary I could give to the Tadiran systems I looked at is "tried and true." And yet I still get the sense that the Tadiran is a flexible enough system to grow with us for a 15+ year time frame. I'm not sure about other systems I've looked at in that respect, though the Zultys, just based on how it is deployed could have the same potential.

Comdial is coming in on the 4th and I haven't made actual contact with Telrad yet. If I had to guess right now I'd say that my first choice is the Lucent upgrade with Tadiran and Zultys vying for 2nd. But that's a pure guess as I don't know the cost of any of these options, I'm only supposing as to what they will be. Regardless, I'm having fun now.

Obviously the easiest thing to do would be to upgrade what you have. That said, from your first post, it sounds like your Avaya vendor might not be the best. Maube you should explore the upgrade option with another Avaya dealer. There are quite a few Avaya dealers around, as well as many independent installers that know the Avaya product very well.
I have noticed that some of the long-time Avaya vendors (and Nortel vendors, for that matter) have gotten a little arrogant. Soemeone a little smaller and a little hungrier might give you better service.

------------------
Intertel Telephone Repair
Avaya Telephone Repair

[This message has been edited by paul144 (edited December 17, 2004).]

Well, I'm definitely nearing completion of this deal. A short recap:

1. Rebuild the Lucent = too expensive for what you get. Between purchase cost and what the ongoing maintenance was costing this didn't make any sense at all when viewed for the long term.
2. Avaya = don't like the product. Too much complexity. It's like buying a stripped down car and optioning it out. IP Office was easily one of the most expensive solution I looked at.
3. Comdial / Telrad = not comfortable with the vendor and/or product. The solutions don't look bad, but they don't set themselves apart, either.
4. Tadiran = very nice solution, a little on the expensive side. I looked at all the systems based on a five-year TCO. The Tadiran was one of the higher priced systems, behind only Nortel and Avaya.
5. Nortel = $$$. Very close to Avaya in pricing. System price, MAC work, and maintenance were all comparatively high. This was a BCM solution.
6. NEC = 2nd choice. Modified the proposal to use a NVM 2000 and I'm much more satisfied with what it offers now. I'd have no problem recommending this solution. As proposed it'll do what we need and the vendor is really outstanding.
7. Zultys = #1 choice. This proposal uses an MX250 at the main site and an MX25 at the other location. I've been trialing the client side of the solution using phones that are connected via VPN to a switch in South Carolina with good results. I've also spoken with other users of the hardware who've had very good things to say about the product and Zultys. The product is very strong against everyone in the lineup. Pricing as neither the cheapest, nor the most expensive. It bears noting that the maintenance costs are very attractive and the MAC work is easy for anyone with an IT department. It's as close to stone-cold simple as I've seen.

The biggest downside to this choice is the very youth of Zultys as a company. The old "Who knows?" factor when you look five years down the road. I hope I'm right.

[This message has been edited by Wheels (edited February 28, 2005).]

If you look at the Tadiran with a 5 year replacement then yeah you will have a hard time justifying the numbers. Remember on a Tadiran you don't look to replace the system in 10 years or more.

You know, that's a very good point. I look at this as managing cost over time. For my size, I don't think the Tadiran is a good fit even over the longer term because the annual maintenance costs are too high. With lower annual maintenance costs, the Zultys and the NEC really hit a sweet spot with our organization. The Tadiran probably compares more favorably with larger deployments.

I agree. That's why we also sell NEC.

And that why I sell NEC also.........

One thing I've learned as a Comdial dealer is that the dealers are as broad as they are long. A good Comdial dealer will blow you away with their commitment to the product and enthusiasm and indepth knowledge of the product. (some of us can't spell very well though) Don't buy an FXII or an MP5000 from someone you are not comfortable with.

------------------

Yeah, If it's price/application dependant I usually quote the NEC/Sprint Flexicom (Tadiran). I usually demo both systems and explain the differences and capabilities. This way when or if the customer goes the a certain route they cannnot say that I didn't tell them so when they want to perform a certain application later. It's covers your arse AND gives the customer a choice on how and what they want to do.

LOL Idont know if you were meening tooo be funy butt that was good

Funny?

I know it's a little late, but Siemens HiPath is a very good product. Compares with NEC and Nortel. Not too expensive and very good customer support. Here's a quick view if you want to check them out.....The "First Tennessee Bank" and "Skyport" would be interesting to you. Good Luck!!

https://www.usaphone.com/productsservices_siemens.html

nm

[This message has been edited by mboy (edited June 24, 2005).]