I'm in California. I plan to start installing VoIP phones systems on
hosted PBX platforms (that is, with no central PBX unit on premises).
Some of the jobs will be over $500 and thus might be contracting as
defined in California. I didn't get a straight answer over the phone
from the regulator, CSLB ( https://cslb.ca.gov ), about whether a
contractor's license is required. The classification that might apply
is Low Voltage Systems Contractor, described at

.... which says that this is anyone who "installs, services and
maintains all types of communication and low voltage systems
which are energy limited and do not exceed 91 volts. These systems
include, but are not limited to telephone systems, sound systems"
...etc. The whole thing is below.

So in California, does installing a VoIP system (where the
job exceeds $500 in total) require a contractor's license?

What about if it's just desk phones being attached to the
existing ethernet network: would that make a difference?

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

C7 - Low Voltage Systems Contractor

California Code of Regulations
Title 16, Division 8, Article 3. Classifications

A communication and low voltage contractor installs,
services and maintains all types of communication and
low voltage systems which are energy limited and do not
exceed 91 volts. These systems include, but are not
limited to telephone systems, sound systems, cable
television systems, closed-circuit video systems, satellite
dish antennas, instrumentation and temperature controls,
and low voltage landscape lighting. Low voltage fire alarm
systems are specifically not included in this section.

Authority cited: Sections 7008 and 7059, Reference:
Sections 7058 and 7059 (Business and Professions Code)

I know zip on California law. That being said, get the license & you won't have to worry about it.

$500 doesn't go far these days, especially since there's no mention as to what the $500 is for: just labour, just materiel, both, including the telephone sets....

I would say that as long as all you are doing is plugging a phone into an EXISTING jack then no, you do not need a C7. You would be on par with any computer geek who I assume does not need one either. But then as far as I'm concerned they should tear the California page out of all Rand-McNallys.

-Hal

Love you too, Hal.......

You also should have contractors insurance ,Is this a business or just a hobby ?

Having just received my C7 contractors license on Saturday (CA 992448) the answer is a conditional yes.

The requirement for needing a contractors license is if the whole job exceeds $500 in time and material not just your part of it. A great example is a bathroom remodel and your asked to install a new outlet that you quote at $100.00 and the total remodeling cost is $3000.00. You would be required to have a contractors license to do this job.

You need the license to improve the property. Installing free standing bookshelves do not require a license, but screw them to the wall and you now need the license.

If you pull cable, install a rack or equipment into the rack, then you need a license. IF all you did was place the VOIP phones on a desk and plugged them in then I would say no you don't need a license unless it's part of a project that falls under needing a license.

The main point is you can't separate parts of a job to defeat the license requirement.

I am not a legal expert on contractor law or license requirements. This is just what I was taught at the contractors law class I took for my license.

I'm the original poster. Thank you for the informative replies.

I also posted the same question on two other forums. You can read
those threads here:

https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups%23!forum/ba.internet%23!forum/ba.internet#!topic/ba.internet/B5TFNedqppk

https://www.dslreports.com/forum/r2...-req-d-to-install-VOIP-systems-in-Calif-

From reading those DSL reports posts it looks like I'm not alone in my thoughts about CA.

But as far as answering your question those are probably the worst places to ask advice.

-Hal

You may not like the rules and regulations that CA has, but if you do work in the state you have to follow them. Whether you like them or not.

I just spent over two years getting my C7 license. Darn previous employer kept lying about filling out the required Certificate of Experience form.

You'll be playing Russian Roulette if you do what the state considers contracting work without a license. They are actively going after unlicensed contractors with various sting operation throughout the state and if you get caught in one, forget about getting a license for several years. Craigslist is not your friend if you are not a licensed contractor. That's their #1 source of leads for the stings.

In case you didn't know and you are doing anything involving Consumer electronics and Residential work, you have to be registered with the Bureau of Electronics and Appliance Repair (B.E.A.R). A $160.00 per year fee. It doesn't matter if you have a contractors license or not.

Now you know why I gave up doing business here in So Cal, I called the board 3 different times got 3 different people and 3 different answers.

2 years from now, low voltage work in CA. will be considered hazardous duty, and cause cancer.

Maybe. But if they keep it up nobody will be able to afford to do work in the state or nobody will be able to afford anybody that does. Just look at what CARB has done to the truckers and other businesses that use internal combustion engines.

-Hal

I wouldn't disagree with you especially with the required B.E.A.R registration. They only have 4 inspectors for the entire state and won;t do anything unless they get a lot of complaints in one area and then they just give out warnings.

Yes you will need a C7 and be bonded. Don't forget your seller's permit and city issued business licence...... Oh yea, and if you're selling anything with an LCD screen larger than 7" you'll need a permit for that too.

I just found this thread and have had the same issue (different answers/explanations regarding a C7 license in California). My question is how does one acquire a C7 license when their former employer did not have a C7 license. Do you have to have certifiable "journeyman" experience under another licensed contractor to apply and test for a C7?
I'm an independent consultant/reseller and 99% of my business is plugging-in computer electronics (no hard wiring involved). I thought I was OK without a license, but I after reading Mercenary Roadie's comments about needing a license to screw a server into a rack, I'm second guessing myself. The exam process doesn't bother me, but I don't know how I would get a C7 license based on my experience working at a company that held no contractor licenses. Any ideas/thoughts?

Sounds like something that the Sparky's union ram-rodded through the legislature to capture the low voltage work. Next, they'll require that 4-pair be as durable as romex. Oh well, at least perhaps they'll quit leaving only 4" of slack to use for terminations.

Nah, that would be Chicago. What goes on in California is because of liberals running amok.

-Hal

In order to qualify to get a contractors license you have to have work in that field for a set amount of time. To get a C-7 Low Voltage Systems license. You have to be able to prove you have 4000hrs working in the low voltage field. There is a form that you have someone fill out and they certify that you have the required 4000hrs.

You only need a contractors license when you add tangible property to a location.

Using your server install as an example. If you sell a rolling rack that does not get permanently mounted, then you do not need a license. If that rack is bolted to the floor, then you need a license. If you're just replacing a server or such in a rack, you do not need a license.

All cabling requires a license.

The kicker is any work under $500.00 does not need a license, but that $500.00 or over amount is based on the total cost of a project. Not just you part. An Example, Your friend is remodeling his bathroom and asks you to move an electrical outlet. You charge him $200.00, but the total cost of the remodel is $3000.00. You are in violation of contracting without a license.

If you want to know why California is so strict on Contractor Licenses. Just read some of the stories on the State Contractors License Board website (www.cslb.ca.gov).

By the way, everything you want to know about getting licensed is on that site.

Like no other state has people with the same stories. Difference is the California government thinks their population is so stupid that they need to take control with draconian measures to protect them. Not that I'm against licensing, but how far do you need to go? No more than 10% upfront? What do I look like a bank?

-Hal

I'm curious then about all the home theater installers. Really, the only true "installation" that I do is attaching an LCD to a wall. I wonder how all the home theater guys do it. Does every installer that works for BestBuy have a C7 license, or does the corporation have one license that covers everyone?

Regarding the experience, does the person signing off on your hours have to be licensed with a C7 also? In my case, I turned my former employer in to the state labor board for failure to pay wages, so I don't know how I will get them to willingly sign a form to help me out now. =(

worked for Bell for 25 years, and left in 1990 to start on my own, had a former worker signed the experience for working, the license was a joke passing as it had more to with accounting & safety then acutely telephone work, they only want the fee, every two years , what worse was the insurance as they always tried putting you in the sparky categorize , then some buildings would want see your liability to get into the main terminal, and the insurance would then tack a charge for each instance to send a sheet.
for the C7 it is a joke
glad I'm retired now

ran into so many who did not have a C7

All that 10% or $1000.00 whichever is less thing is when you sign the contract. In your contact and the schedule of payments you can have whatever payments scheme that your client will agree too. Most of the contractors that have been advising me tell me to put a clause in that all parts and materials are to be paid for when delivered or you don't unload them from the truck.

Yes, the person attaching the LCD to the wall needs a C-7 or C-10 license in California. The installers that do the BestBuy work are mostly contractors off of several job platforms and most don't even carry basic General Liability Insurance. the people installing the home theater would not need a license so long as nothing is mounted to the structure or any cable are not ran through the walls or surface mount raceway.

No the person who sign the experience form for your license application does not need to be a licensed contractor. They just have to be able to verify that you have the required number of hours for the license you are applying for.


I am not an expert and this is just what I have learned (right or wrong) during my licensing process.