Have we ever had any discussion on the forum as to why manufacturers are so hell bent on abandoning amphenols? I did a search on amphenol connectors but got lost in the forest. I know part of the reason is because of IP telephony but there are some weird wiring schemes occurring on the 8P8C connectors!

I think you probably hit it. IT has a huge influence over what the manufactures put out.

Amphernol connectors are really not designed for high speed data. While 25 pair CAT5 cable does exist, I am unaware of 25 pair CAT6 cable.

I don't think Dave is necessarily thinking about data. Plenty of digital phone systems still are being made where the interface would be more efficient if it was 50 pin Amphenols. But I think Bill is correct. IT weenies have no idea how to deal with anything but patch cords and the manufacturers are catering to them, not us old phone guys who are a dying breed.

-Hal

IT types understand only patch cords. They are totally clueless when it comes to high density connectors. If they can't jam solid wire into a 8P8C satin cord connector, they are lost. Unfortunately, most manufacturers are looking for the "plug and play" day when a craft person is irrelevant.

Rcaman

OH give me and others like me a break. I may not know as much about telephone systems and equipment like several you do, but I know a heck of a lot more than many others around here do and I'm learning more and more every day about everything I work on or with.

Bashing IT people is just an excuse because you don't know squat about IT and it's requirements and you don't like the fact the the straight phone industry is dying.

Technology is moving away from the old ways and the current new systems might not b the best, but they are still very young compared to the old established telephone ways that were developed by a monopoly and therefore didn't need to try and please everyone.

The Amphenol connectors are being phased out because they just don't work with the required bandwidth needed these days. They were great for what they were designed for back in their day, but that design is obsolete for this day and age

Well, "required bandwidth" isn't a consideration when you're talking about digital phone sets.

However, the design of rack mounted telephone control units and modular connections works well with structured wiring systems, when the station cabling is terminated on patch panels on the rack. Just be sure to consider cable management as part of the installation.

Plenty of phone guys know enough about IT to do a fine job of installing systems that can coexist with the data network side.

Point taken. I am sorry if I have offended you with my comment. I am only speaking from my personal experience. For every one of you, there are 10 that leave wiring closets, main frames and IDFs looking like a tornado hit.

I respect the IT professional that "does it right." Same goes for telephone crafts people. Unfortunately, there are a lot of "unprofessionals" that make everyone look badly.

Rcaman

The topic has to do with why manufactures are moving away from amphenol connectors as a way of terminating phone systems. The fact is the manufactures are catering to the wants of the IT community. While name calling is not called for in any discussion on this forum, this does hit a nerve with quite a few of us. It's a fact of life things change and in some opinions not always for the good. So let's continue on in a bit nicer tone.

Yeah, it's Friday the 13th and a full moon. I'm love'n IT guys today.

-Hal

Hal, I agree. I, too, love IT guys. They make possible the purchase of goods and services that I could only have dreamed about.

It's not just us it guys. I've seen plenty of electricians do stupid/dodgy installations.

8p8c connectors and rack mount systems make installs quicker and easier when the system is being installed a rack.
It's not that much harder when frames are used either (no reason you can't use 25 pair, though I think using cat 5 looks neater)

I admit that my remarks about IT guys was ill-stated. I should have also recognized our good friends in the electrical industry, with an honorable mention to plumbers, carpenters, and masons.

Let us not also forget that great unwashed majority, the Screw-It-Yourself crowd.

Let's keep it on topic, it's not let's bash everyone day.

Sorry Bill, sometimes we need to vent.

I just got back from a newly-renovated home office with a beautiful tile floor at ground level. The owner wants to know why the electrician can't get his Panasonic 2-line phone to work. Upon investigation, I found a yellow/blue (single-pair) cross-connection wire running across the floor, buried in the grout, connecting the source of the dial tone and the intended phone location.

Any suggestions on what I should have said or done? Anyone?

The only way to save your dignity would be to walk away.

If you told the customer that the wire is insufficient and not installed properly you risk:

A) Getting into a pissing match with sparkie (after all he does have a license you know) and you don't know what you are talking about.

B) Having the customer tell you that you are only saying that because you didn't install it and sparkie was cheaper.

C) Having the customer accuse you of trying to make extra money by saying the wire has to be replaced.

D) And (drum roll) the customers IT guy said it should work fine.

-Hal

One more time, this thread has been hijacked enough, keep it on topic.

This thread was started by Dave because of a comment I made in another thread. We were discussing a new phone system that will primarily be used as a digital system, though it is technically a hybrid.

The system in question comes in 4x8 increments. The CO Lines pin-out two per 8C port on the KSU, and are wired: CO1 = Pins 1,2, and CO2 = Pins 4-5.

Station Ports 1-4 are on 4C ports, with each digital extension using the center pins. To make things even more interesting, digital station ports 5-8 also use pings 2-3 on the 4C port, but pins 1&4 have an analog extension on them.

While I really like the new system, the wiring is rather odd to me. Since this is a primarily a digital system, we'll use it to replace an exiting key system, where the customer does not want a VoIP solution.

Tommy mentioned rack mounting of the equipment. This is something that we sometimes do, depending on the environment. But, with the way this particular system wires out, you still need to run everything to a patch panel first in order to be able to make connections properly.

This system is not the first to come up with screwy connectors. I just do not understand why an amphenol solution would not be a better fit for this type of system. No one (in this thread) was ever advocating using amphenol connectors for data.

I understand the frustration. The ESI, with the exception of the legacy IP and the new 900 all have Amphenol connectors for CO and station connections. We did X-Blue for about 30 seconds as I was not a fan of how that was to be wired. Don't get me wrong, the X-Blue actually works, but I am so concerned about how the connections are made that we only installed about 10 and then quit.

If it was a matter of bandwidth or cross noise induction, I would see the point of getting away from the Amphenol connector. However, in most cases, that's not an issue.

Rcaman

Most of us know what Amphenols were designed for. 1a2, Comkey, old Comdial ect.. When the 25 pr. for each phone went away, it seems like they designed systems to use all the left over amphenols to just bring out the feeds from the KSU, when 4 pr. took over.

I still have a Amphenol crimp tool and a bag of M/F kit of parts that hasn't been touched for years and I don't miss it! It always sucked pulling 25 pr. and sitting for hours putting the ends on.

Hal,.. Period?

I'm probably older than most of you guys and none of this bothers me. You adapt or fade away.

The sole issue I have is idiot phone or IT people that do not know their craft. A well versus individual doesn't care about whether it's amphenol, 8C, 4C, analog, TDM or VOIP. All have their advantages or disadvantages but have their needed place.

Amphenol connectors can be used in rack mount applications.

While the use of 25 pair cable is not as common today as it was before companies started converting to VoIP, such cable is still used in Central Offices. More often than not, the cable and connectors are rated CAT5e.

Jacks are mounted horizontally. This allows cables to be routed to the side in order to be secured with lacing cord.

Thanks for getting this back on track. I've assumed that the answer is because of the proliferation of cheap 8P8C crimp tools and all that we can infer from that. I see this as the loss of yet another tried and true system that is being replaced by something that is not necessarily better.
It likely saves a nickel and allows those without a legacy background to install a phone system. Thus increasing profits.

I buy or fabricate my plugged cables. All my hybrid and digital systems require me to custom terminate on patch panels. Pure IP will never see 100% saturation so it will always be that way.

I think some blame lies with the AT&T Merlin and Panasonic KX-T systems. Those products eliminated amphenol connectors before IT became an issue. I have bemoaned the sight of sloppy Partner/ACS installations and I am starting to see the same mess increase. I think that is part of the reason why we have enjoyed having an ugly installation forum to do our small part in preserving some cabling integrity.

ShoreTel chose to adopt the amphenol interface and--last I checked--is a player in the IP telephony arena.

Long Live the Amphenol!

I've actually become attached to the NEC hydra cables and how efficient they are. Especially when you are terminating on patch panels it makes for a clean install.

Long live Tim! Good to see ya buddy! Thanks for the input!

Shoretel did it right: amphenol connector where it made sense, modular where it didn't. They used "the right tool for the job". However, that being said, I inherited a Shoretel system that was being supported by IT folks who didn't have any telecom background, and the amphenols were broken out on "harmonicas", and then silver satin stretched the rest of the way (and in once case it went 25-pair connectorized/amphenol cable to harmonica to silver satin to another harmonica to connectorized cable to connectorized 66 block, or went to a 66 block with modular jacks on the side...try troubleshooting with that mess!). Can you guess what I replaced soon after taking over the system.

Justin

By the way, Cisco also uses amphenol connectors on their VG224 and VG350 analog gateways, as well as some of their router service modules to break out FXS and FXO ports.

Justin

I work in an IT department, so I was pushed into making telecom installs "IT friendly".

Most of the connectorized cables and tie cables tie down on rack-mounted 110 blocks, and we use 110-to-modular and 110-to-110 patch cords to connect to the patch panels and to other 110 blocks in the same rack row.

They're way too high density for my taste, and it's not easy to trace cables.

The sad and unfortunate thing is that the "phone guys" still end up making the connections, as the IT folks are mostly too apprehensive to touch it.

Justin