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Posted By: J2telnoob WARNING - 08/03/07 02:04 PM
Toshiba might be scaling down their telco division to virtual nonexistence.

Though it is a great product, the company has had consistently low sales and very well may phase the division out, leaving only minimalist tech support for existing systems.
Posted By: phonemeister Re: WARNING - 08/03/07 04:58 PM
Where did you get this information from?
Posted By: breed Re: WARNING - 08/03/07 06:53 PM
Toshiba just announced buying out Oaysis ACD and Netphone at the dealer meeting, changing to a new style of phones, software and IP card in the next quarter, a new larger CIX 1200 and a new system to be released in the next few years that is under development now and you are talking about them cutting back. I believe you are badly misinformed.
Posted By: p2ii Re: WARNING - 08/06/07 06:04 AM
Quote
Originally posted by breed:
Toshiba just announced buying out Oaysis ACD and Netphone at the dealer meeting, changing to a new style of phones, software and IP card in the next quarter, a new larger CIX 1200 and a new system to be released in the next few years that is under development now and you are talking about them cutting back. I believe you are badly misinformed.
Exactly. Top 3 in market share in it's size range with one of the best systems out there. Yeah, they're closing up shop!
Posted By: RRino Re: WARNING - 08/06/07 07:35 AM
Id need to see some backing evidence before I took this seriously.
Posted By: J2telnoob Re: WARNING - 08/07/07 10:05 AM
Hi guys.

I dont think the source of this information is really important because its only my opinion, but I hear things that give cause for concern in my book, not that my book matters much.

Toshiba sales have been consistently low for many months. they are going to begin charging dealers for in class training at the Irvine site and for satellite training; 2 of the three products that were to be released in august have been scrapped, deemed as cost ineffective; and the position of the japanese is that their telco division has become a wasted drain on financial resources, where development does not lead to any kind of increased sales.

As for their purchase of Oaysis and the other companies, has it not occured to anyone that perhaps the reasons that these companies were being sold off is that they werent doing very well when they were sold?

I admit that Toshiba has been throwing out some last ditch efforts to patch up the sinking ship, but they are not being met with positive results.

I'm not a Toshiba hater or anything guys, on the contrary I like their products and have a good bit of time and energy vested in that company.


I'm sure most of you work for or run companies that offer a relatively diverse range of products anyway, but just keep this in mind, thats all Im saying. Dont trust that a company has your best interests at heart, because they dont and they never will. Sales people will sell that image, but thats exactly what it is, its an image they sell.

Companies are self serving and the japanese are not stupid, if they feel that a division of their company is failing, they will not hesitate to dissolve it in their own face saving japanese ways.

Do with it what you will.
Posted By: TadiranTechTexas Re: WARNING - 08/07/07 10:28 AM
Quick Quick everyone. Get a CCIE on staff since it seems the only system that is not in financial chaos is Cisco...

Toshiba telecommunications division has been around for a very long time.. I don't think any of the dealers have anything to worry about.
Posted By: The phone Man Re: WARNING - 08/07/07 01:02 PM
Well I went to toshiba scjool in Irvine for the DK 424 product line and it was a great school and at the time I think it was free for the training but. That should not matter in my opinion because every school I have went to since then has costed something or another for the school and training. This is the 20th centry and nothing in this world is free any more if it was everyone would want a piece of it. I would not believe that Toshiba is closing the doors the product is toooooooo solid and even the old systems that are out there are as solid as Toshiba in my book.
Posted By: telguru Re: WARNING - 08/08/07 11:08 AM
I am positive that charging for training has nothing to do with the state of Toshiba. In fact.. anything free has absolutly no value. In fact... Toshiba is conducting regional technical training... bringing the Training to it's Authorized Dealers. In fact the enrollment for Technical Training has never been higher.

In fact J2telnoob has no idea of what he/she is talking about. In fact stuff like this should be ignored!
Posted By: The phone Man Re: WARNING - 08/08/07 11:14 AM
I have never heard anything like that I also agree that something for nothing is useless information. I remember when the traing I went to in 2004 was free all you had to cover was lodging and meals. I am glad to see that TOshiba is still a strong standing product and I feel that they will be around for a very long time.
Posted By: Amy DeBruyne Re: WARNING - 08/08/07 11:53 AM
J2telnoob -

I would have to disagree that the source of your information isn't important! What you heard and who you heard it from could be the result of a disgruntled employee or someone wanting to cause trouble.

As for new products that were scrapped - please list what they are as I, as a dealer, haven't seen any notification of anything that has been scrapped! The release of a few items have been pushed back, but that isn't anything new.
Posted By: J2telnoob Re: WARNING - 08/08/07 05:42 PM
Quote
In fact.. anything free has absolutly no value.
Yeah, tell that to the millions of people worldwide happily using linux.

Sounds like telguru is a Toshiba spy hahahaha, and there's an 'e' in 'absolutely' smart guy.

In fact...awfully riled up for a first post methinks.

I'm not arguing the point that Toshiba offers regional training and their enrollment may be high, but lets see how that changes when a two thousand dollar fee gets tacked onto the tail of that puppy. The dealers I work with have a hard enough time pulling guys out of the field for a week for training, much less shelling out two grand for it, but who knows, maybe the dealers I work for are just crap.

Anyway like I said, these things mentioned are just my opinion. I was under the impression that the function of 'forums' was to provide a 'forum' for discussion.

I'm sure Toshiba will be fine! Never been better...

We'll see if thats still true after the layoffs in October.

I know, it's my fault for coming on too strong but still... lighten up folks.
Posted By: www.telcom1.net Re: WARNING - 08/09/07 01:35 PM
Its definitly a harsh "Dooms day" theory....

But the truth is Cisco has all the big pbx guys on there heels, Avaya, nortel, etc..

we all know its an overpriced low on feature product.. but they have everybodys ear especially the IT staff at larger companys...

it going to take some adjusting but toshiba will be fine

its not a phone system anymore its a switch or gateway .... get it?

its all about the new buz words ...

one your going to hear alot is "Redundancy"
Posted By: EV607797 Re: WARNING - 08/09/07 01:53 PM
Excellent insight, Bill. That really does pretty much sum the whole thing up.

Nice battery backup units, by the way. I relied upon mine twice yesterday and once today. I like 'em.
Posted By: TadiranTechTexas Re: WARNING - 08/09/07 02:38 PM
You are right about a "forum" but honestly your first post should be " I heard Toshiba was in Trouble" post. Maybe a "HI" from California would have been better. Or better yet, a question asking anyone else if they heard the same thing you did about Toshiba's troubles.... Forums are for opinions but to be honest there are techs on here that love their products and will defend against any persuasive talk of problems with a manufacturer. Welcome to the board though... hahahahahaahahah!!!!
Posted By: J2telnoob Re: WARNING - 08/10/07 05:22 PM
Yeah, I realized that I had come on too strong but at that point it was too late and there was no turning back hehehe.

I had heard some things I found very disturbing and being a new tech, and particularly one that likes Toshiba, I got a little excited I admit. Sometimes I forget that people are actually going to read what Ive written. laugh

As for Amy's question about products that have been scrapped, or pushed back; if I remeber correctly one was the GIPH that was to provide SIP trunking and the other was an IP board expanded from an 8 to a 16 port capacity, dont remember which though. What I had heard was that they were scrapped for good, but who knows.

They are so completely overstocked with product, and their sales are so low, (again sales for the month of July were in the 80 percentile range, yielding more than 6 million in losses over the last 5 months) that the fear is that by the time they sell off their stock, the products developed will be outdated and will generate no mentionable sales versus the cost of release.
Posted By: p2ii Re: WARNING - 08/13/07 05:53 AM
Quote
As for Amy's question about products that have been scrapped, or pushed back; if I remeber correctly one was the GIPH that was to provide SIP trunking and the other was an IP board expanded from an 8 to a 16 port capacity, dont remember which though. What I had heard was that they were scrapped for good, but who knows.

[/QB]
I can tell you this. Neither of those products mentioned above have been scrapped. Trust me.
Posted By: TadiranTechTexas Re: WARNING - 08/13/07 06:15 AM
$2500 for dealer training is not bad at all. Most dealers love the Toshiba product and will do anything to make sure it stays on top.
Posted By: phonemeister Re: WARNING - 08/13/07 08:34 AM
Let's not forget that you can do on-line training and certification.
Posted By: Toshiba Bob Re: WARNING - 08/13/07 03:02 PM
You know I really don't see why anyone is now, or will be in the future, listening to you. You admit that your a NEW technician, and that you have heard from reliable sources that you aren't comfortable to share, and you sounds so much like someone who is pissed off or irritated with either your company or Toshiba directly. If your not a new technician, but a new technician to Toshiba, I sure would like to know where you base your years of experience.
I don't know about others but buddy, you just as much came out blasting Toshiba negatively and I for one see nothing that you have said or that they have done to deserve this deformation of character.
If you have basis for the accusations or proof of Toshiba about to do what you say then maybe some people will pay attention to your babbling, empty, hot air.
Until then please let's try to keep it to facts or opinions.

ES&D

Here....back to you Ed!
Posted By: EV607797 Re: WARNING - 08/13/07 06:54 PM
We really need to be careful about throwing stones, especially here in a forum with a worldwide audience.

If you heard that SBC bought AT&T, then that's something that can be posted here. If you heard that that at&t bought Cingular, that's great information that can also be posted here. How about "Hey, I heard that at&t just bought BellSouth". That kind of information is safe territory, but that's it. If it's in the news or trade publications, then by all means, share it with the rest of us. We welcome that information so much that we have recently formed a new category for it called "Telecom News".

Speculation, regardless of sources, really isn't welcome here. We are here to assist others, not to spread panic based upon undocumented or secret information. We really don't want to be a part of that.

Sorry, J2Telnoob. It's not that we don't value your (or anyone's) input here, but we can't go around spreading this kind of information without some proof of these allegations. There are legal ramifications that must be considered when making statements such as yours in a public environment.

Feel free to visit here as often as you like. You'll get a ton of assistance and we won't shun you, but we need to do what we can to protect the interests of manufacturers, their dealers and the owners of this forum from harm due to hearsay. We trust that you will understand this position.
Posted By: J2telnoob Re: WARNING - 08/13/07 11:47 PM
Understood Ed.

Toshiba Bob, I believe the phrase you were looking for was 'defamation of character'.

Defamation \Def`a*ma"tion\, n. [OE. diffamacioun, F.
diffamation. See {Defame}.]
Act of injuring another's reputation by any slanderous
communication, written or oral; the wrong of maliciously
injuring the good name of another; slander; detraction;
calumny; aspersion

'Deformation of character' doesnt really make sense, and attacking me personally isn't necessary. :nono:

I was not slandering them maliciously and I thought I made that clear.
Quote
I'm not a Toshiba hater or anything guys, on the contrary I like their products and have a good bit of time and energy vested in that company, and this isnt something thats going to happen immediately
I also stated multiple times that I was expressing my opinions. Maybe if you read my posts instead of getting heated over it you would have seen that.

Ed I apologize for the posts as I had not considered the potential legal concerns that it may raise. Perhaps deleting the topic would be best.
Posted By: petersog Re: WARNING - 08/14/07 05:50 PM
I agree with Ed this is a forum that all can come to and get info on solving problems that others may some insight on not a place to start rumors. A LIPU card can already do 16 ports with the added piggy back card. and guess what the business world we work in today anything is possible so why worry about tomorrow when today is here for us to enjoy
Posted By: MrEngineer Re: WARNING - 08/20/07 02:11 AM
Well as they say, when be prepared for when they move your cheese..........

Still, until then, its business as usual for us here.
Posted By: TadiranTechTexas Re: WARNING - 08/21/07 06:19 AM
Quote
Originally posted by petersog:
I agree with Ed this is a forum that all can come to and get info on solving problems that others may some insight on not a place to start rumors. A LIPU card can already do 16 ports with the added piggy back card. and guess what the business world we work in today anything is possible so why worry about tomorrow when today is here for us to enjoy
Actually the LIPU card can do 16 by itself and 32 with a piggy back correct?
Posted By: p2ii Re: WARNING - 08/22/07 06:15 AM
QUOTE]Actually the LIPU card can do 16 by itself and 32 with a piggy back correct? [/QUOTE]

You are correct.
Posted By: J2telnoob Re: WARNING - 08/23/07 12:30 PM
It must have been the 16 port GIPH that was pushed back. We dont have many 40's out there though so this is not a huge loss.

I recommend checking out Toshiba's financial profile for anyone interested in getting a feel for where we fall in the overall Toshiba picture. We are a small piece of a small piece of a suprisingly large pie.
Posted By: phonemeister Re: WARNING - 08/23/07 02:37 PM
Quote
Originally posted by J2telnoob:

I recommend checking out Toshiba's financial profile for anyone interested in getting a feel for where we fall in the overall Toshiba picture. We are a small piece of a small piece of a suprisingly large pie.
I wouldn't worry too much about that. Look at Panasonic, Samsung, and NEC. Their business phones division is small fish compared to their consumer electronics and other stuff that they do.
Posted By: J2telnoob Re: WARNING - 08/23/07 07:33 PM
Good point.
Posted By: www.telcom1.net Re: WARNING - 08/27/07 02:31 PM
scary being such a small piece, only means it wouldnt be as big of a deal to get rid of the telephone division...

I think the key is advertising, every time I see a cisco comercial showing there phones or even a tv show with cisco phones prominently displayed I want to throw a brick at my Toshiba television..

If toshiba would just advertise and let people know that they have a telephone division, sales would skyrocket....

A comercial that showes of all there products including phones would be awesome .....
Posted By: TadiranTechTexas Re: WARNING - 08/27/07 02:59 PM
As far as I am concerned Toshiba doesnt have anything to prove on trying market themselves in a TV show. Their Product speaks for itself. Cisco has to do that because their product is sub-par and they have to try to sell to a bigger audience.
Posted By: DefaultRebuild_Again Re: WARNING - 08/28/07 08:48 AM
Not only is Toshiba's sales hurting but so is all the other players. Look at Samsung, NEC, NORTEL and Avaya. All the Digital players are trying to hold on for as long as they can selling port hardware. Some of you will remember casette tapes and the introduction of the CD's. Now the evolution is downloading tunes. It's evolution and it needs to happen.

In this industry we have the same evolution process. Digital is going away and SIP is the new system. Guys it's not a difficult transition at all! I'm sure most of you can relate to attending manufactures meetings and the charts showing why SIP sucks and Digital (TDMA) is better. No doubt about how a SIP install can go bad. But, a Digital installation can go bad as well if not performed properly.

In summary, all the "Big or Known" players mentioned above will be suffering if they don't make a change into the SIP world. It's a reality and it's not bad for us (Installers and sellers) of phone solutions.

I have recently come to the conclusion that I can make more money selling SIP (If it's the right product). The customers are excited to hear about this technology and that's refreshing to me. When was the last time a customer was actually excited about hearing about phone solutions?
Posted By: jimmyv Re: WARNING - 08/29/07 06:05 AM
I agree with Telcom1, a little advertising and product placement would go a long way. I get requests for phones “like they have on” the TV shows 24, The Office etc. Toshiba makes many fine products, show them off.
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