NEC-2002 called for the removal of accessable abandoned cable. BOMA had tried to get this revised in 2005. I have not found definitive proof they were successful. Does anyone have experience with this. I was thinking of persuing this in my market.

Thanks,
Chris

"Abandoned cable? What abandoned cable? I don't see any abandoned cable?" This is a quote from our official company handbook.

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I have never seen any abandoned cable either. I've seen cable that hasn't been used in a long time---but who knows what tomorrow brings. Today we used some pairs on 4 25 pair cables that weren't used in over 30 years, I would suspect. I'm awful glad they weren't pulled out.

Doesn't the NEC say something about removal of abandoned cable OR tagging it as no longer used (sorry guys, 3:52 a.m., I don't feel like looking it up right now!)

you are correct.

I am not sure, but here in Big D every major re-model has turned out all cable removed from ceiling resulting in my cabling fresh. This has been going on for a couple of years.

Dallas acted on the NEC when the NPA approved it in 2002. In DC, VA and MD, it is about to take effect. In some places in MD, it goes in effect at the end of this month. VA & DC will most likley approve in the fall. Now inspectors can withhold occupation permits based the NEC regulations.

Personally I like the idea of removing abandoned cable. I get paid to remove the wire and usually get to keep it. The scrap yards around here won't give you much for it although. Recently I had some Cherokee Indians approach me to buy scrap wire. They use it to make copper jewelry, belt buckles and such. They pay way better than the scrap yards too. Soon I will take a trip to their grounds to see how they melt down the old wire in these huge vats. Should be interesting. Just a thought!

[This message has been edited by clgjr (edited March 12, 2005).]

I was told if you label it, it's not considered abandoned.

Here on Long Island, It Is required as per NEC - all old & unused wire MUST be Removed, this item the inspectors were not really following up on. The Building inspectors are the one's who have been enforcing this part of the code. I place in my bids - Existing Wires or Abandoned wires to be removed by others, if requested to be removed, additional cost will apply. Good luck !

I place in my bids - Existing Wires or Abandoned wires to be removed by others...

I always suggest that we HAVE to do it.

Not only do we like getting paid for it but how would a couple of laborers know what to remove? There can be other LV wiring for HVAC, speakers etc. that looks like all the rest. Sometimes there can be a feed from the TELCO terminal into the space that can be reused. Sometimes wiring for other spaces will pass through yours in the same bundles.

No way would I recommend that any wiring be removed by people who don't know what they are doing unless maybe the building was a complete gut.

-Hal

The wire belongs to the building...so it's never abandon.

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Doesn't matter who it belongs to. If its not connected or at least tagged it has to go.

Many landlords and property owners are getting smart and requiring tenants to remove any wiring they have installed when they leave.

I agreee that I would hate to do this if the tenant did a really nice job that could be used by the next tenant but most likely that isn't the case. The wiring usually is a mess, jacks painted and hanging off the walls and the space will be torn up and reconfigured anyway. Better to start from scratch.

-Hal

I think it depends on how much you need the work, and if you dont, how much you can get away with.

Lets get behind the spirit of the NEC code guys... the problem is that unused and/or abandoned cable has been proven to just be fuel for fires... Go to the Dupont website and download some of their fire test videos showing both burn rate and smoke from all types of cable... we are doing a disservice to our clients if we don't educate them on the risks...

The NEC doesn't allow for 'tagging' the cable as 'Not In Use'... It says that cable that is not in use needs to be identified as for 'future use'. otherwise, it needs to come out.

I agree, you need someone who is tech savvy to do the job otherwise wrong stuff gets pulled out...

I just did a job in No. Cal where the T-bar ceiling was literally bowing from the weight of cable left in the ceiling... in a 5000 sq ft office area, we removed 2800 lbs of old 50 and 100 pair cable that had been piled and piled and piled on... Good money for your proposals. Just have a knowledgable tech go through and tag or mark the stuff that needs to stay/go and then pay lower wage guys to actually do the work. Using the NEC as your basis to educate and sell the customer works pretty well... good hunting...

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It has to go.It can just add to a good clean install (makes your job shine).You keep the scrap and sell after you get 1000pounds or more.have a company picnic and keep up moral in shop.

Jamey

Working in a C.O., we are always trying to locate and remove abandoned cable. Makes for easier pulls under the raised floor

I had a whole bin of cable saved up over a few months. Took it to the scrap yard before I went off to college. 60 pounds and a dollar a pound

Take it out.
In my best David Letterman's voice

10 reasons to remove old cable:

10. It's a fire hazard

9. It wastes valuable space in conduits and sleeves

8. It's ugly

7. By the time it's used it will probably be obsolete

6. It is or soon will be against codes

5. It makes your job look much more professional

4. Scrap cable goes for around $.60 per pound around here

3. It's hard to work around in some ceilings

2. It makes you look smart when you explain why it needs to come out to the customer

1. And the number one reason to remove old cables is because we get to replace them which is why we are all working.

Jeff,

Good luck at school!

I HAVE NEVER SEEN ABANDONED CABLE. IN MY OPINION ALL CABLE THAT IS NOT BEING USED NOW IS JUST THERE TO BE USED AT A LATER DATE

All of you people around Southern Virginia who don't want to remove abandoned cable can call me. I'll be happy to take it off your hands. Any other work you don't want we can discuss also. I have a hard time turning down work.

I've been pulling cables since 1967 and I was part of the culture that put all those 50 and 100 pair cables on the ceilings. There were no standards at the time and the mentality was to get the job done as quick as possible. Things have changed. Not to mention the fire hazard that old cable presents and the obvious trip hazard to firemen in case of a fire, It's a lot easier to work in a ceiling that is well organized without a lot of junk cable.

Take it out or call me.

An alternative #1 reason: scrap copper is paying a very good price right now. A weeks worth of collecting scrap wire could buy a months worth of beer!

We have had issues over the last couple years here in the Wasington DC area and have just adopted the practice of removing abandoned on any larger project...50 plus workstations. Not only is it a good practice but don't want the client thinking that junk overhead is our work

But seriously many building owners and property managers in this area have adopted the practice and mandating it as a requirement. The problem ussually comes up when they are trying to figure out who is going to pay.

At least the scrap value helps to offset the loss, if any in the event that nobody ends up paying the bill. It's also the responsible thing to do, not to mention the inspectors.

Of course, on larger jobs, I would assume it's understood that the tearout is included in the price.

It's kind of a shame though. We have ripped out perfectly good CAT5 networks for no reason. Not that we complain, since we get paid to do it and replace it, but what a waste..........

Some nice replies here.

Increasingly we are seeing on remodels requirements to follow the NEC and remove wire that is currently unused. I like Oldtimer1's top ten.

Occasionally we get to keep the removed wire and at current prices ranging from .80 to 1.40 a pound, which adds up to extra bucks very quick! On one job our installers got over two grand for the scrap they pulled out! And that was only a portion of what was eventually removed!