We recently moved a customers telephone system to Totowa NJ. While the Electrical Inspector was inspecting Electrical in the new facility , he told our customer there was no LV wiring permit taken out and they could not get a CO with out it. After being told twice by the Building Department at the town there was no need for LV permits/inspections, we finally forked over the $47.00 permit fee at the Electric Inspectors demand just to move on.....
Anyone else running in to this "new" requirement? No one including the Electrical inspector could tell me when permits/inspections went into effect.

Oh, permits are required for LV wiring just about everywhere in the Washington, DC area. I just had to spend an entire day taking a course to receive "continuing education credits" just so I could renew my electrician's license in just one county! The course was on "safety when working with high voltages and arc faults". Like that has anything to do with low voltage wiring!

Anyway, that county requires a full electrical contractor's license to install low-voltage wiring (well, to obtain permits anyway). In DC, nobody is allowed to install low-voltage wiring except fully-licensed master electricians. They don't even have a "limited" license available.

Sounds to me like you actually got off light! Still, you should probably get used to it. It's a huge revenue generator for the towns, cities and counties. Ca$h is what it's all about.

All the new construction jobs around here requires a permit for LV. In all the municipalities I've worked in they won't even issue a permit if you don't have a NJ Telecommunications exemption certificate.
The only way around the permits is to cable the office after the CO is given.

I don't do much cabling anymore. Only programming now. But I remember having to get permits for a job in Edison NJ. In NJ, It may depend on the town. This however, was the only town that required it that I ran into.

Another reason I live in Texas.

Give em time Dan. It won't be long until they realize they're missing an opportunity to tax us. I think once they do I'll apply for a job with DnR so I can sit in a phone closet with my head buried in the sand. :>)

Are you sure you are not a former employee of mine. You seem to know what many of my so called techs do?
lol

LMAO. That wouldn't be nearly as funny if I hadn't dealt with having employees. Actually, now that I think about it, that's probably what has me ready to go sit in a phone closet. :>)

In our county there is a $100 Application fee and $50 Annual renewal fees. A permit costs $44.50. AND OBTW the city of Akron, which resides in our county, also has permit fees.
I'm thinking double-dipping is excessive taxation.
The rich get richer .....etc.

I have everyone beat. For those of you who are familiar with my mile-long posts, fasten you seatbelts. Here we go:

An existing customer is expanding and opening a fourth office (YES!). Not a huge jub, but it's nice to have them keep coming back. I am not complaining.

Customer needs 32 cables run, a less than $3,000.00 job. We started negotiations on this job a while back, but didn't actually go to get the permit until we had the deposit in-hand. They give us the site address and tell us it's in the city of Rockville, MD. We contact that city's permits office and they inform us that no license is required, just a simple form and a check. That was a month ago, so we figured it wouldn't be any big deal.

We go to the city office on Wednesday with check in hand, only to be told that this particular block on that street isn't within the city limits (the city/county boundary zig/zags). We are directed to go to the Montgomery County, MD offices up the street (within the city; how confusing). We don't do a lot of work in this area, that's why we don't know much about the local policies.

There, it's not so simple. They don't allow us to use our statewide Maryland license and a local business license like most other jurisdictions. You have to apply (and be approved by the board that meets twice a month). They allow reciprocity using another license from a neighboring jusrisdiction. Fortunately, we have plenty of them.

Problem is, I have to take the forms to the neighboring Prince George's County and have them sign-off. That's not normally something they do on a walk-in basis; you leave the forms there and they call you to come pick them up once they are signed. I manage to call (and beg) someone to sign them for me so I can take them to the other county offices. They do it for me and I am on my way around the Beltway.

By the way, my license in that county expires tonight at midnight, but I have attended the continuing education classes, paid the renewal fees, sent them photos of myself (see left), all that is required. Thank goodness that while I was there begging them to sign my form, they happened to remember having seen my renewal application and "there was a problem".

You see, there are varying degrees of license level fees in this county (Prince George's County, MD). We checked the wrong box and sent the wrong amount in with the renewal forms. They allowed me, while I was there, to just give them a check for the difference. So far, things are going very well for me today.

I arrive at Montgomery County's offices (located in downtown Rockville, MD) with all of my forms, insurance certificates, affadavits, check for $506.00, you name it. I wait in line, eventually get my turn and all is good. Fortunately, the board will be meeting on Monday night, so my application will be presented and I will be legitimate by Tuesday morning.

Not bad! The guy even lets me go ahead and fill out the permit application for the job and pay the $140.80 fee for it. He is going to hold onto it until he gets the green light and he will speed-process it for me so we at least have a permit number on Tuesday. Bear in mind that we were supposed to start the job on Monday, but hey, that's our fault for waiting until we had the job deposit.

Only one catch: My Prince George's County license expires at midnight tonight. The Montgomery County Board doesn't meet until Monday night. By then, my supporting documentation will be invalid. The guy tells me to just fax him the new license from Prince George's as soon as I receive it. Keep in mind that as of 11:30 this morning, P.G. was still sitting on my application, so something tells me I won't be seeing my new license in the mail on Monday. Get where I am going here? It's a Catch 22 situation.

OK, well I will just have to wait and see what happens on Monday. I am on the way back to the office after having completely (yes completely) circled the Beltway (about 60 miles) in my quest. My phone rings and I am told that a Fairfax County, VA permit that we pulled last week has the wrong suite number on it and it will have to be redone. Back to the office, pick up another check and application, then head out to Fairfax. By 3:30, I have the new permit in hand and I head back to the office.

It's been a whole day of my time, 200 miles @$3.00 per gallon, and $771.80 worth of checks written, but hopefully by Tuesday, we will be all set.

God, it sure is great being a legitimate business. 90% of our competition isn't. Hmmmmm.....Maybe they are the smart ones!

I hope you enjoyed my little story about regulation and it's pitfalls.

In Cobb County Georgia to get a low voltage permit you have to have a state license, a Cobb County business license and a 10k bond exclusively for Cobb County only.

EV,
If it weren't so down right sad the way you got jacked around it would be almost funny.

So far out here in the sticks there is no requirement to pull permits but I can just see it coming!

Did you ever think about show business? What a monologue this story would make.

Have a good weekend, KLD

Damn: I had a great chapter two of my book, but this new forum doesn't let you respond without logging in. By the time I did that, chapter two was gone.

Permits, licenses and technology. My three best friends.

Maybe I will re-write chapter two later. It was good. The saga continued after I thought my day had ended. I will leave you hanging...........

Speaking of permits. Does anyone know of an electrician in Baltimore Maryland that I can partner with to pull permits there?

Thanks

We are still ok here for now, but have heard it is coming.

Is this a county,city or state law?

Mr. Vice President:

Around here, it's on a city-by-city, town-by-town, county-by-county and state-by-state basis. I could have saved a bunch of keystrokes by saying that any jurisdiction within 100 miles of my office requires a local business license (yes, each jurisdiction with annual renewal fees paid based upon sales volume), a state contractor's license (big, bad test if you want a class A with no "per-job" dollar limit) and then an individual electrical contractor's license for the locality.

It has actually gotten so bad around here that there are "permit runner" companies that provide you with a body who will take your application to the appropriate office, wait in line, pay the fee, and then bring you the permit back when they are done. Of course, they do these in mass, but it still costs money. It costs less than paying an employee to waste three+ hours. A runner can cost anywhere from $20.00 to $100.00 over and above the cost of the permit, depending on how long they have to spend waiting. It's just like a taxi. If we sign an annual contract with the runner company, then they give us a flat-rate price per-permit, but it's expensive since we have to write a check for the whole year.

Amazingly, the licensing is the easy part. Getting the permit is the fun part. Here's the process:

1. GC demands a low-voltage permit or we can't set foot on the job;

2. Get GC to fax us a copy of the building permit so we can get the "building owner, lot, block, district" and all of that other stuff;

3. They resist since they are too busy; we should be able to get this information on our own;

4. Eventually get the fax or figure it out, then drive anywhere from 30 to 90 minutes to take the application, along with a blank check. It has to be blank because the permit fees change each time you go there;

5. After an hour waiting to get the permit, you make the return 30-90 minute trip back to the office so you can fax the permit to the GC superintendent.

6. You use the appropriate jurisdiction's automated system to order a concealment inspection for your wiring.

7. The inspector calls you the next morning and asks if it will be OK if they just "catch" the low-voltage wiring when they do the other inspections a week from now. (We paid for our own permit and inspection, but who is going to argue with the inspector?).

8. The inspector never even looks at our wiring when he inspects the high-voltage.

9. We call the automated system for the final inspection after we have installed all jacks.

10. Again, the inspector calls and asks if he can just pick our inspection up when he does the final for everyone else.

11. Again, we agree. Who wants to poke a skunk? Give him what he wants, period.

12. The county collects their $50.00 to $200.00 (plus our time, of course) for the permit which is nothing but paperwork.

We even tested the system by pulling a permit for two cable runs (like we are supposed to do) in a plenum ceiling, but we intentionally ran non-plenum cable. It was in our own office. The installation passed with flying colors. The inspector never even opened a ceiling tile!

No, nothing was said to the inspector. It just brought me to the realization that inspections on low-voltage are just a matter of license and permit fee revenue. These people aren't stupid.

Mike, you made me drag it (the box) out again!

I'm glad I work in Maine Here how it goes here.

1. Customer calls wants new lines installed.

2. Send tech to pull wires and make connections.

3. Send invoice for completed job.

In upstate NY it depends on where you are. In the city of Buffalo, I had to get a permit to run LV. The permit fee was $75 and then it was something like $5.50 per termination. Now, in the 'burbs of Buffalo, a permit isn't required. In Rochester, I have heard you're supposed to have one, but no one is enforcing it.

We also fight this battle. In fact it is so bad we just recently did a job where the guys were a little anxious in getting started so they pulled cable before pulling the permit in Washington DC. Bad call...inspector showed up when they had about 95% of cable roughed-in. Electrical contractor did not have a permit posted and either did we...$2,000 fine each.

Never had that happen before. We had the permit the next morning. Lessen learned !!! We do no work without permits any more...

Mike

Ouch! Anyone know a good cabling outfit in Jacksonville, FL?