If you put a cable certifier on a cable and it tested the cable with short on pins 4,5. Then you press the button to retest it and it then indicates pins 1,2 and 5,6 are 'miss wired' but 4,5 are clear. Then you press the button to retest again and this time it indicates only pins 5,6 are 'miss wired'.

what would you think?

I would change either the patch cords or the batteries in the tester.

Start by testing each patch cord by plugging the main unit directly into the remote with each patch cord.Verify them and continue.

Try using both units plugged into AC, eliminating the batteries.

If all these show OK then either repunch the jacks or cut the jacks off and replace them with new ones.

If all else fails try for an exorcism.

Sam

:rofl: I know it's not very funny but Sam is seriously funny sometimes.

What kind of tester is it?

Are you the only one testing this cable? if you have a partner at the far end he may have been jacking with you. Other than that your tester may need to be serviced

Does this cable tester indicate at which end of the cable the fault is located?

It possible you have the remote is plugged into the wrong jack/port and there is a device plugged into the other end of the cable?

Try swapping the tester and the remote and see if the results change at all.

Sounds like you are not using a 2 way tester. I have seen this before and it drove me nuts til I added the 2-way injector to my Pentascanner.

OK, what happened to me was that my crimper had gotten old and was not properly seating the pins. Looking straight on at the connector I could see some pins higher than others. This caused intermittent faults. Even the HD crimpers using swappable dies wear out if you use them enough. The cheaper ones are even worse as their rivet joints loosen up. Also, not every connector works in every crimper. I bought a bag of one brand that just did not fit my Paladin crimper. Some of those crimpers only take round cable connectors. Some only seem happy with flat. And if you have a swappable die model you have to be sure to use the right one. I run into no end of trouble with home made patch cords so I eschew them as a rule.

When the batteries on running low on our Pentascanner, it gives really weird readings, mostly with Near End Crosstalk. Using the AC adapters gave the correct tests!

One thing about tester/certifiers is they will tell you which end has the problem. Good power and cords and if the device has a calibration feature, use it!
By chance, your not testing hubbell x-jacks are you?

It wasn't my tester or my test. I believe it was an Agilent Wirescope. I was looking over the shoulder of a guy using it. When I said that's kind of odd, why would you get different responses, how can you rely on a tester that is doing that? Then I asked some of the same questions posted here. Are the batteries good in the remote end? Have you ever calibrated it? Do you keep testing it until it tests good then you accept it? He just dismissed it and said 'well, it can do that because of the cable connections, you know, if it moves a little in the jack. It'll give you different results.'

On one test he indicated there was a 'kink' in the cable. Then he said it was a far-end or near-end termination fault he wasn't sure.

So I said 'well okay'. I just don't see the point in a tester like that. Why don't you plug a PC in and see if it works? If it doesn't, Then you know as much as the your tester is telling you: Something is wrong.

I posted this because I wondered if anyone else would not think this was kind of odd and just accept it like this guy in the field did.

I know with the fluke testers if you overtighten the screw on the test connector you can break it causing problems. As well as if your end is to loose it will cause problems as well. Finger tight they say

If that guy in the field was working for me, I would have fired him on the spot.

Sam

The Fluke PM-06 adapters will do that if the locking tab has broken. The contacts don't align properly. And if a tech. is on that end "holding it in", if it moves while doing so you will get varying test results.

OK then, going back to your original question I think the guy using the tester needs to be replaced. If you take the time to learn how to use it, a tester like that can give you a great deal of information. If you don't know NEXT from return loss, then you may as well just use a $50 wiremap tester. Maybe you should offer to trade one to him for that Wirescope.

Well, I feel I need a little more information.

1) Are you repairing either end between test, or are you retesting without trying to fix the connections.

2) Does this happen all the time with this particular tester or even tech, or was it just this one time you were watching over his shoulder?

As mentioned above, many elements can cause a tester to report incorrect results. Bad Patch cords, Bad port on Patch Panel, Bad jack on far-end.

If he claims it changes when he moves the cord around, I would have to said it is either the patch cord you are using, or the tester head, or something that’s "Right there in front of you".

Just like Installer3 stated above, we had one tech that just seemed to have a lot of trouble getting his cables to pass. He kept saying the tester had gone bad. He was getting the same results as you are, very intermittently. Come to find out the locking tab on the patch cord was broke off of both ends of the cord. When he tested cables by himself, he would plug in the main unit, and let it hang from the cord, this slightly pulled the connector out of the jack causing an improper connection. Even with 2 people, if one person holds it in, but slightly moves during the test, it will cause very strange results.

We replaced both patch cords for the main unit and the remote, recalabrated the tester, and have had no more problems.

Sorry this got long!!!

This is the full story behind this post.

To Whom It May Concern:

The following is in response to the events that occurred on 3-06-08 to 3-20-08 at xxxxxxxxxxx.

Thursdays 3-06-08;
I received a call from Brad a technician with AMI. He told me he is having difficulties with the networked computers at Dr. xxxxxx’ office. He indicates that he is experiencing “packet loss and applications freezing” his trouble shooting leads him to believe that the trouble may be caused by the structured data wire installed by Select Systems Telecom. He asks me (without urgency) to check a couple of cables that he will mark. I agree to come out at my convenience to do any trouble shooting and or repairs that may be needed.

Tuesday 3-11-08;
I arrive at Dr. xxxxxx’ office. What I find is a much more urgent trouble than I expected. I find 2 GTO technicians with the patch panel removed and hanging in the closet doing unauthorized tests on the structured wire. I also observe multiple jacks opened and altered. The GTO techs tell me that all of the jacks are bad, stating that there are “shorts” and “miss wires” on virtually all cables. I observe one test on cable D-11. I am told the white/blue pair is shorted. The GTO tech starts the test. The test indicates that pairs white/brown and white/orange are “miss wired”. I attempt look at the test more closely when the GTO tech pressed the test button to retest the cable. This new test indicated that only the white/orange pair is “miss wired”. I ask the GTO tech “why are you getting 3 different test results on the same cable”. He responded that this is “normal”. I asked him to visually inspect the cable. A “miss wire” by definition is a wire or both wires of a pair that are not connected to the correct pins of the cable. The GTO tech said a “miss wire can be anything”. I then run a test with a Siemon STM-8 wire map tester. This test passed with all pairs showing correct wiring no “shorts” or “miss wires” as it did when I originally installed and tested the cable. The GTO tech indicated that the patch panel is not wired correctly. He indicated that he thought the wire was not twisted closely enough to the termination. My observation of cable pair he was referring to had about .30 inches from the last twist to the termination. I told him that the twist was with-in one twist of the cable to the termination so as to not alter the natural twist of the wire (Please refer to the attached document BICSI TIA practices).

I then observed Ron with AMI and the 2 GTO techs telling Dr. xxxxxx that they can fix all of the troubles today for about $1,500. Plus any time the AMI techs and the GTO techs had been “delayed” because of the “structured wire” issues. I was shocked at the arrogant and unethical business practice of trying to convince Dr. xxxxxx that I was unable or unwilling to address any issues with the structured wire while I was standing right there! And which is under warranty by Select Systems Telecom and xxx xxxx Construction. I demanded at that point that GTO stop what they are doing immediately as it appeared to me that they (GTO and AMI) are simply trying to make some money and not actually interested in interests of Dr. xxxxx.

I continued with some trouble shooting of my own and could not find any fault with the structured wire at this point. I told Dr. xxxx I did not trust the tests performed by the GTO techs and that I would return to test and certify the cables per Ron’s request. And that I would also replace all jacks in the suite per Ron’s request the following day. I agreed to this in an attempt to cooperate with AMI and GTO in the interest of Dr. xxxxxx.

Just before I was ready to leave Dr. xxxxx asked if I could look at the PC in the x-ray area. They had just taken x-rays of a patient and needed to print across the network. I observed the PC was “locked up” and not able to process the task at hand. After some testing I was able to get my laptop to function on the same segment in question but only after I move the patch cord from one port on the AMI provided network switch to another port, only then did the trouble clear. I plugged the PC and the patch cord back to their original state and informed Ron of my findings. He dismissed me and said he will look at it later. I told him there is a patient and a nurse standing there waiting to take an x-ray. He said “he is not the expert on that particular software on that machine”. I again requested that he look at it anyway because they are still standing there waiting. He turned away and stated “I will re-boot it later”.


Wednesday 3-12-08:
I arrived at 0900 and Begin to replace data jacks. After changing the first jack, D-16 and testing the PC at this location the PC still had the same "lost packets" and still "freezes up". I changed the patch panel end, retest with the same results. I then make a new cable, retest with same results. I replace with a factory manufactured 12' cat5e patch cord, retest with same results. Because of the nature of the events on Tuesday I buy a new 50' cat5e patch cord to leave the front PC directly plugged in to the network switch. I then request AMI to fix their hardware or software problems that are causing all of the initial reported problems. At this point it strongly appears that all troubles are AMI hardware/software related and the GTO test results were inaccurate. At this point only the D-16 jack is replaced. Jack D-08 is replaced because it is missing from the unauthorized work performed by GTO.

Friday 3-14-08:
I meet with AMI Tech Brad and Jim xxxx at 0830. I Inform Brad of my tests and conclusions to this point. I request Brad clear the trouble on AMI hardware/software using patch cords. I am extremely confident at this point that if AMI can get it to work on a patch cord it will work on the "structured wire". I left while Brad was still trouble shooting the hardware provided by AMI.

Thursday 3-20-08:
I arrived at 0900 to find the PC network system on-line and working properly with all PC's plugged in to the structured wire and that AMI cleared their trouble on Friday the 14th. But, because of the e-mail sent by Ron Vesely on 17th still claiming that some how the trouble that AMI had was related to the structured wire. I continued with the original Request by Ron Vesely to certify the structured wire to 1 Gigabit. All tests AGAIN test clear. ALL CABLES TESTED GOOD TO 1 GIGABIT AND PASSED ALL WIRE MAP, SKEW, SNR, CHANNEL RESPONSE, ECHO RESPONSE, NEXT AND GIGABIT BERT tests. These tests were all performed without any changes or modifications to the original structured wire installation; other than the necessary clean-up after the GTO techs left.

In conclusion:
In no way did the structured cable contribute to any trouble real, imagined or manufactured on any network device. This conclusion is further supported by the fact that after AMI cleared THEIR network trouble on the 14th and plugged all of their devices back on to the structured cable all of the original problems remained cleared. If the GTO test results were accurate, the network devices would have continued to fail. But after AMI replace their network switch and the mother board (I understand on the network server). Then, and only then, did the trouble clear. All tests performed by Select Systems Telecom are supported by my network print out (attached) and the fact that all properly functioning devices work properly on the structured wire without any modifications or repairs from the original installation.

AMI and GTO should both be ashamed of the way they handled this situation in such an unprofessional manner. In particular I found Ron to be arrogant, uncooperative, combative and unwilling to resolve the real issues at hand. I found the GTO techs to be vague when asked to explain some of their conclusions. They were nit-picking things that had absolutely no affect on the performance of the wire. And then they left their video cable unsupported and hanging diagonally across the com closet. Ron and the GTO techs were too eager and too fast in asking for money to repair problems that just didn’t exist and that would not have cleared the real trouble at hand. After all, Fifteen hundred dollars worth of jack repairs will not fix a mother board and a network switch that was causing all of the problems experienced.

The only reasonable person in any dealings with AMI and GTO was Brad. Brad was professional, cooperative, courteous and willing to find and fix the real trouble not just blame everything on imagined trouble. As I understand Brad found and cleared the problems on the 14th. If Brad, not Ron and GTO were on site on 11th I am confident the trouble would have been cleared then. All of us would not have had so much of our valuable time wasted; and this letter and this invoice would not exist.

Attached are three documents. One is the detailed report of the cable certifications. One is a two page excerpt from the BICSI Telecommunications Cabling Installation manual on the proper termination standards of TIA 568-B.1 IDC. And lastly is an invoice for AMI for all of my time spent trouble shooting problems that didn’t exist and proving the real trouble was with the AMI provided hardware.

Sincerely,


Stuart Cargill
Select Systems Telecom
Office 951-302-1854 x107
Cell 951-551-7955
Fax 951-302-1854
Licensc c7-819414

Wow. Just, wow. Thanks for the update!

The STM-8 tester showed that the CGs either didn't know how to test or had defective tester,The fact that you came back and certified to 1 Gigabit proves how well original install was. $1500 was price for new Motherboard and switch.Your post was very interesting. John