One of my clients are building a new building, and the architects want to know whether to plan on a single CAT6 cable to each workstation or to run separate lines. The clients are buying a new VoIP system with built-in VLAN-aware switches, so we will be able to patch to the computer from the phone. The client is a non-profit provider of medical care for low-income patients, and they are hoping to save money wherever possible.

I guess I have two questions:

1. Anyone have any ideas on whether I should press to have a second line run to each workstation?

2. Should I be happy with Cat6? It looks like it would cost twice as much to install Cat6a, and the benefits aren't immediately apparent to me.

Thank you for any input you can provide!

Well, most people don't even realize the full potential of cat 5E much less 6. Depending on how much they want to save money because they are non-profit and size you have to weigh the costs vs benefits. Quite honestly, if they are relatively small, a VOIP system is going to cost more than the headaches it's going to give vs a traditional small key/hybrid system. Thinking you can use that one cable for everything and not factoring in growth, for like adding a printer OR modem OR fax etc. It is rather nice to have a voice and data cable everywhere. Also, consider the benefits of having 2 separate systems in place vs up time on the phone and data. In large multi site installs VOIP is the way to go...in smaller situations, where money is tight AND you absolutely need 5 9's of reliability...that's another ballgame and to get that on a VOIP system is going to blow your budget..big time.

The client is a non-profit provider of medical care for low-income patients, and they are hoping to save money wherever possible.

If that's the case tell us why they are wasting big money on a VoIP phone system and CAT6 cabling? Somebody is giving them very bad advice!

-Hal

I vote for 2 Cat5e cables to each workstation. No need for Cat6, completely unnecessary. 2 cables gives flexibility that's always needed down the road (and doesn't lock them into one type of PBX).

The VOIP system is another matter - they often cause cost overruns, true, but only when installed by someone who doesn't know what they're doing. It all depends on the product and the company installing it. In most cases a properly engineered VOIP system can save money and give the same 5 nines reliability of TDM.

2 Cat 5E at each location. VOIP why. The end-user should give there answer to this. The cost savings will be limited and the problems mat not be worth it. What VOIP system are they looking at?

"Should I be happy with Cat6? It looks like it would cost twice as much to install Cat6a, and the benefits aren't immediately apparent to me."

Cat6 is much cheaper than cat6a. Cat5e works more than adequately with VoIP.

If the client has enough money to have a new building erected, he has enough to put in two cable drops per workstation. I would push for two cables/workstation.

Jack

I agree with 2 CAT5E which installed properly will do gigabit ethernet. CAT 6 is supposed to do 10GIG on runs less than 155 feet. CAT6A will do 10GIG to runs of 328 feet. The material costs for CAT6/CAT6A and extra installation and testing time required will outweigh the benefits. Is your non-profit going to spend thousands on 10GIG switches and 10GIG cards for the PCs? Probably not. Then why CAT6?

The VOIP system is another matter - they often cause cost overruns, true, but only when installed by someone who doesn't know what they're doing. It all depends on the product and the company installing it. In most cases a properly engineered VOIP system can save money and give the same 5 nines reliability of TDM.

Misleading statements like this are what causes the thinking that a VoIP system is going to save money. There is absolutely no reason to have an IP system unless there are multiple sites with a dedicated WAN between them. Even then there is no cost savings and actually an increased cost to using IP phones for a number of reasons.

Now that we have the facts straight let's not turn this topic into a TDM vs VoIP debate!

-Hal

Hal, are you saying your opinion cannot be debated here? Sounds a little fascist...

:-)

Right. Start a new thread or resurrect an old one because it's been debated to death already. I don't know what more can be said. Viewpoints depend on which side of the keyboard you are on, that's about it. :sleep:

-Hal

It would be best to install two cables. The twin Cat 5 would handle any combination of data, TDM or VoIP. If they have any extra money instead of VoIP I would suggest changing one of the two cables to Cat 6.

Matter of fact I'm going to move this to the Cabling forum because that's what the question is about.

-Hal

Ask the customer if they think there will ever come a time when their computer system will go down for a few minutes. (most computers I've ever met do this occasionally)

Then ask them if they think they'd like to be able to call out on their telephones when the computers aren't working.

Then ask them if they think they'll ever want to add a printer or fax machine at any work station.

The industry standard is a minimum of two Cat5e wires to every work station. Some of our friends here will say that the minimum is one cat3 and one cat5. In either event, the operative amount is TWO wires.

Your job is to prevent a customer from having a bad day. I define a bad day as a time when my phones don't work for one minute.

Post removed due to being off topic.

I have YET to see this realization in a small system...anywhere, anytime. I know it's the mantra but every single customer that I have AS a customer and have visited that isn't mine say this is bogus.

These responses are amazing. Thank you so much for your helpful replies! At this point I think I might recommend they drop a second Cat5e line.

In everyone's experience, how much extra does it normally cost to install Cat6 vs. Cat5e? Does Cat6 take literally twice as long to install as Cat5e? And does Cat6a take a lot longer than Cat6?

I think the phones are Mitel, but I'm not sure. I'd be interested in reading people's thoughts on which manufacturers are generally considered to be the most seasoned in the technology.

My co-worker and I weren't in the loop on the decision to go with a VoIP system and were caught off-guard by the announcement. I'm not even sure the brand has even been decided yet--just the vendor. When I researched Mitel for a customer several years ago, they were already seasoned in the VoIP market and looked like they were in good shape. My wife works the phones in customer service for a small company with an Asterisk-based VoIP system. Because it's VoIP, she can work from home over a VPN using a headset attached to our computer to take calls (as a matter of fact, she has yet to work a day physically located at the call center). It has been a robust system, for all that I can see.

Like Hal said, if there are remote workers VOIP may make sense. If not ????

We have a bank as a client and while they use VoIP they always run 2 cables to each location. I think off the top of my head they have a dozen or so branches and one call center for them all. They have their own IT dept to take care of the VoIP but they have always asked for any additional locations be run with two cables.

In my experience, it's highly dependent on the materials used (Cat6 vs 5e). There is a fair amount of physical difference between manufacturers of cat6 cable. Terminations can take 2x as long, yes. Cat6 materials are obviously more expensive than cat5e. There is no universal answer to "how much extra will it cost?". If you wanted the "best of" cat6 everything, it could easily cost 2x as much as just having everything with a cat6 stamp on it, get my drift?

6a, 7, and all that are, in my opinion, blank check projects.

Jack

BICSI, and other standards organizations, specify a minimum of two Cat 5e (or above) cables at each work area outlet.

I two would recommend using 5e if you're looking to save money.

Because it's VoIP, she can work from home over a VPN using a headset attached to our computer to take calls (as a matter of fact, she has yet to work a day physically located at the call center)

I think something like that comes down to "are you doing it because you NEED to- or is it something that you do just because you CAN".

With all respect to your wife, a company has to weigh the added costs of supporting remote workers and the necessity of not having them in the office vs some other means such as cell phones vs having them physically present. In your wife's case I think it was something they could do so they allowed it. In most cases spending less money on a system and hiring someone who will be at the office (who also would multitask) is more cost effective- from my experience as a business owner.

To bring this back on topic, just how many extensions and work stations are we talking about? Give us an idea as to the size of this company.

-Hal

A couple nice reasons for two CAT5e if they are going VoIP is that if you have to reset the phone (especially if the phone is PoE) you lose network connectivity briefly on the PC that is daisy chained to the phone. And if the phone's switch port dies or has issues, that adds to troubleshooting issues. It's easier to troubleshoot if the PC is directly connected to a port vs a phone.

Also, I haven't seen a lot of VoIP phones that have gigabit ethernet interfaces on them, if that matters to you. Those may exist however.

Well, all these responses have settled the cabling question in my mind. Two cables is the way to go.

There will be about 60 phones on the network in two different locations.