Let's see if any readers can predict the punchline to this story:

A steady customer of mine, whose real estate business office phone and data systems I have moved twice before, called me on Thursday.

"Arthur, can you come over to our new office, and tell us how we should proceed with our telephone and computers? We had an electrician do the wiring, but we're not sure how it's going to work."

Here's what I found:

1. One blue Cat5e to each of ten locations.

2. One white RG6 coax to each location.

3. All wires fastened to the underside of the floor joists in the basement, and coiled up at the front of the basement, near the electrical panel.

4. All wires crimped, because he used electrician's staples to fasten the wires.

The phone/data closet is in the rear of the ground floor. So all the wires are run to the wrong place. The electrician's explanation of why he ran coax to each desk? We're waiting for that answer. Probably because in HIS home office, there's a coax feeding his lone computer, so that's the way it's done if you have ten computers.

I was asked to fax them a proposal explaining what was wrong with the work so far, and how much it will cost to do it right. I assumed the crimped Cat5e's can be used for the key system (one pair out of each will probably be serviceable). The coax's? Leave them there, I suppose.

The thing that irks me the most is that the owner's husband is the "GC" and is running the job as cheaply as possible, and in the past, I have had this same conversation with him, about "call me first." I bailed them out the last time this happened, too.

I faxed the explanation and proposal on Thursday. So far, no communication from them. I suppose they're trying to get a refund from the EC, or trying to get him to redo the wires. It will be interesting to see what he does next. My wife says I ought not to obsess over it, and "if they call, they call, if they don't, they don't."

My new motto: "Call me first, or don't call me at all."

Kinda like Magicjack. "It doesn't work" Yeah, but just think of the money you're saving.

Carl

Tell them congratulations. They are now ready for an 80's Arcnet network that you can't find parts for anymore.

Sometimes I wonder what world some of these ECs live in. They don't know that they don't know! I'll bet Hal would have had a few choice words to add if he were still around!

Arthur, I should put your line on my business card!

Seems you can save the COAX with a series of splitters or a concentrator. But I know what you mean. It's like shoot the messenger. They have to get pissed at somebody and you are handy. BTDT.

what, you've been on hold for 15 years now Jeff ? :rolleyes:

Guarantee you the coax is for the "internet from the cable company". I had the same thing happen to me when one of my customers moved to a new office. They told me the landlord was a retired AT&T guy who had wired the office for them. He flat out told me that was for the internet... when i explained that they would need a modem (and a separate account) at each of their 10 locations he was dumfounded... we ran cat 5 and all was good.

I am with you on this stuff Arthur... get the knucklehead who didn't do it right to come back in and fix it.

I just had a small job for a new vet that was opening... he told me the electrician was doing the wiring .. when i met him onsite the electrician told me they were roughing the cables in and that was it. I explained all of the potential pitfalls and then explained that my price to rought the cables in wouldn't be too much different anyway so why not have one vendor do it all.

The electrician was happy he didn't have to do it.. he was only doing it to keep the GC happy. The GC just couldn't comprehend that roughing the wires in was only half the job... there was just as much time (and expense) dressing everything in and terminating it.

You have to speak consumerese. To the consumer there are two jacks in the wall, one for phone and one for internet. He does not suspect there is a LAN. For "internet" therefore read "data". That old ATT guy probably put in coaxial cable thinking it was the latest for the LAN. Ethernet 10Base5, 10Base2, Token Ring, Arcnet, DecNet, and others all used coax in a loop-thru arrangement. Anyone remember those? Twisted pair LAN came later. If you wanted the latest you got Cat-3 installed for your phone and your data. Of course phone only requires Cat1 aka Cat0, but the FCC and others pushed Cat3 for phone so it would be in place for data.

No Skip...

"My new motto: "Call me first, or don't call me at all.""

there are plenty experienced ,competent techs that have no problem being called second, third or fourth to clean up the work of others and get things working bill accordingly and pick up a new customer .

Damn - I remember Arcnet! Wasn't it RG62A/U coax? 93 ohms, same as IBM 327X terminals but bus topology.

Arthur what you did for them was not give them a proposal. This was consulting work. If it was a proposal you would have given it prior to the work being done. I hope you charged them for your consulting.

Mike

Yep ARCNET, still got a roll of 1000ft, i got caught with.
No application these days unless i could use a balun for some use.

Did you charge them?

I had the exact same situation some years back with a client that ran a network of community shelters and non-profit housing. We had a pretty good relationship with this client, but they were a charity, and were under a lot of pressure to save money where they could.

During a reno at one of their properties, the EC was able to undercut our quote significantly. We warned them about this, but they had to watch the bottom line. We got a compromise with them though, that we would spec what was to be installed, sparkie would pull the cable, we'd inspect before the drywall went up, and then we would terminate and test.

Of course, through the telephone game (no pun intended) from us -> GC -> EC, "1 4pr Cat3 and 1 4pr Cat5e with pull string in 1" conduit" got translated into "1 phone and 1 internet", which then got translated into "1 Cat5 and 1 RG6, no conduit, stapled to the studs".

Questioned about this, sparkie thought he was doing us a favour, since "cable internet is faster, isn't it?"

Oh, did I mention that they forgot to call us before the drywallers came in?

Fortunately, the client learned from this lesson, and held the GC to our original specs. They had sparkie rip out all of his cabling and install just the conduit, then backcharged him for my T&M to do it right. Oh, and he got the bill for re-doing the drywall, too.

I really liked that client.

Needless to say, the next time they reno'd a property, we got called first for all the LV.

I know Skip, and a lot of what I do is cleaning up other people's work. It still would be nice to call us to do it right the first time.

Are you saying that I'm just supposed to turn the other cheek? I've run out of cheeks.

I'd be happy to straighten out the mess, but they are already my customer (I thought) and to straighten it out is going to take more money than they originally thought would be enough to do the whole job.

I can't go around educating and correcting forever. Just once, I'd like to be called first.

interesting choice of words , Its business . they should have called you but they chose to try to save some ,money and went elsewhere. lesson learned ...or not

you give them a quote (they may get others ) and they call you or they call someone else. that's how business works

why take it so personally and get wrapped up in it ?

a customer isn't a wife or SO , they are only "your customer " until the next time they need something ...


my response was to the concept of

"Call me first, or don't call me at all.""

for me its

"call whomever you like first , but call me last "

I like that Skip, but I'd add "to have it done right".

"You've called the rest, now call the best!"

"Why take it so personally and get wrapped up in it?"

Because they are an existing customer, they are personal friends of ours, and I want everyone to have things that work right the first time.

If these "friends" expect you to correct the errors of others for free or less than your normal rates, then they're taking advantage of you and time to have a "sit-down" with them.

If their personal friends then why did this happen? If their truly friends then you should be able to tell them like it is and get this sorted out?

Probably because it is wire so sparky said he could do it?

Jeff, exactly. And I won't give them a break on the price. It's a moot point, because they haven't called back yet. So Sparky must be taking care of it. I wonder how he's managed to learn the whole business in three days.

A check arrived today, for half the proposed amount, with a note saying, "Go ahead and do it right."

Case closed.

Arthur,

Love it!! you were probably grinning from ear to ear!!

I love it when a plan comes together!

Arthur,I feel your pain.

I ran into the same thing the other day.Customer asked me to come out and terminate. Got out there and found out the sparky ran the cables because he was on site and could do it cheaper.He saw that Comcast had installed there modem at the backboard so off he went and ran RG6 coax to each location and told my customer that's what he had to use for the network if they were using comcast and that he didn't have the tools to terminate them to a patch panel LMAO and needed to get his phone guy to come in and do it, now the sad part of this story is that the customer has seen me over the years put in voice and data so he damn well knows what the cable looks like but still went ahead and let the idiot do it because of the cost savings. What did he save??? nothing it's costing him 3 times as much then if he would have just called me in the first place because he didn't even address the voice cables.

All I could do is give them a price to rerun the entire job.

Last I heard they are fighting with the sparky and I'll be damned if I'll go out there and tell him how and what to do!!!

Russ, you can always charge a consulting fee. To who is up to you! Both, if possible! Get it in cash up front!

At least if you do it, the coax makes a nice pull string! (I know, it's been said before)

I've seen this too recently. Customer tries to save a buck and has electrical contractor do the cabling. Sparky installs Cat6A for voice and RG6 coax for data to each workstation (because Comcast comes in on a coax). Then customer thinks I'm making trouble because I lost the job to the electrician...

Two things;
1.
Sparky got my number from the customer and called me to ask what he needed to run, I told him hey I don't underbid and run electrical work when I'm at a customers because I don't know how to do it so I suggest you do the same.

2.
Customer called later that day and wants me to come out and cable the office, so I guess he took my advise.

Just love # 1 :thumb:

Vodavi digital sets will work when connected to coax. I have done it numerous times but only for one or two phones per site, not a whole screwed up installation.

Did you use a balun? :rofl:

Nope, although that would have worked I guess. I just twisted the shield tight and soldered one pair cross connect to it and the center conductor, then puched it down on a jack at one end and a 66 block at the other. Worked like a charm.

You were serious? LOL

It's unbelievable the lack of communication and ignorance there is, by the customer, in this field.

People will do ANYTHING the electrician, plumber, HVAC,.. landscaper, says and never bicker about price

Phones? oh thats easy, just plug it in

Derrick, there had to be a better way. Was there no way to get the proper cable there? I couldnt sleep at night if I punched a coax down on a 66block. Talk about a hack job. sorry dude

I love this thread. I wonder how much ignorance there is of cabling standards among GC's EC's and clients over all?

My wife's dental office was renovated and I went to look at the cat5 cable that was pulled by the electrician. The cable was terminated with wire nuts at the back board! The secretary complains there is no CID showing up on the phones displays. Could this poor termination have something to do with it?

Re CID, probably not the wire nuts. Are the phones directly on the line or in a system? First, CID must make it into the building, as in the Telco is actually sending it! Then, if they have some sort of phone system, it must be CID capable/equipped, and programmed correctly.

Surdel....

I'm not quite understanding your post..are you trying to correct the caller I'd or just inquiring. I agree with Lightning horse that its probably not the wire nuts this time. However that will be a problem in the future when corossion begins. I doubt it has corroded yet. A simple check at the demarc. With a battery powered caller id unit is a beginning. There are several more things to test as you progress however it sounds like you need a tech. on site to correct all of the other problems. Just let us know.