Over the years, I've been told by local inspectors that structured cabling must be supported every 4'. I took their word for it and never bothered researching.

Recently, an issue came up with spacing (ceiling beams are 6' o/c) so I decided to actually open the NEC and read about it. I couldn't seem to find anything referencing distance between supports, other than "properly supported".

So...what gives? Is there an actual code section that defines "properly supported" or have the inspectors been misinformed all these years?

:confused: :shrug:

I'm pretty sure the NEC says no more that 4 and a half feet, but no idea what section I found it in. I do know it wasn't section 800 I'm thinking it was in resident electrical.

We always used two supports for every 10' length of pipe. Two feet off one end, then four feet to the next support, then two feet to the end. My copy of the NEC is from 1975 or there about, so I wouldn't bother looking through it.

I'll see if I can find the spot in the code online, or in a more modern version of the code.

Sam

I'm not asking about conduit (nor residential), I'm asking about low-voltage (voice/data/cctv) cabling not in conduit.

I've been told time & time again by (almost) every inspector "Supported every 4'...it's the code"...but I can't seem to find this magic number anywhere in the code.

I know you weren't asking about residential electical, I just stated that is the only place in the NEC that states the distance on a horizontal run. The NEC doesn't specifiy spacing of low voltage wiring. I'm sure BICSI does, but I wouldn't know what it is. I've always gone by 42", but that's from the Bell days.

So is the determination up the the inspector or could this be a "local code" thing (or is the inspector talking out of his arse)?

Can the inspector produce documentation to back up his claim? If he says that it is listed in the NEC, he should be able to tell you where to find it.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Danny_Ocean:
[QB] (ceiling beams are 6' o/c)

Move each ceiling beam back 2 feet, use the proper rings or j's to support and be done with it....

I've got an old copy of the EIA/TIA specs. The 569 spec says something about spacing of supports every 1.5 meters (5 feet).

There's probably more info there, but...

EIA/TIA/BICSI, as Bill said, would not be quoted by an electrical inspector - unless it is a local code requirement.

Sam

At this point it would be much simpler to simply add a new beam midway between the existing, then you could support every 3 feet! :toothy:

The NEC does not directly address in issue of supporting 'distances' for communications cable in the horizontal position.

However read Article 90.4, because this is often times overlooked.

This points you to the correct answer to your question:

Look here

Recently, an issue came up with spacing (ceiling beams are 6' o/c) so I decided to actually open the NEC and read about it. I couldn't seem to find anything referencing distance between supports, other than "properly supported".

So...what gives? Is there an actual code section that defines "properly supported" or have the inspectors been misinformed all these years?

They have been BSing you all these years. There is nothing in the NEC that addresses support other than keep it off the ceiling grid and what you can't support it from- like other line voltage wiring, conduit, sprinkler pipes, etc. Next time an inspector gives you his opinion, ask him to quote you the Code section where it is written. Might help if you have a code book in your hand and are opening it while you ask. :p

-Hal

In Oregon they make it easy to view the:

Oregon Electrical Speciality Code

This document legally overrides the NEC.

We cabled a 14 story building and danced to the tune of the local municipal inspector. We had our BCISI engineers pulling their hair out with all the off the wall changes and requirements this guy was coming up with. BUT,we had no choice, local rules applied!

However read Article 90.4, because this is often times overlooked.

Not overlooked, just not relevant to what we are talking about. The AHJ is responsible for interpreting the Code, yes. But he can't make up his own rules.

we had no choice, local rules applied!

Those local rules have to be in writing and provided to you. Again, the AHJ can't just make things up.

-Hal

"But he can't make up his own rules."
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But, until you get a rep as an NEC 'STICKLER', how much spare time do you have to attend appeals, and how badly do you want your work inspected with a fine tooth comb. Complying with demands for manufacturers spec sheets on each and every item you install for the job will eat up your spare time and 'innocently' hold up the inspectors approval. Tread very lightly.

A.H.J.: The National Fire Protection Agency (NFPA), which uses the term throughout their codes and standards, has officially defined it as “the organization, office, or individual responsible for approving equipment, materials, an installation, or a procedure.”

Oregon Administrative Rules 918-305-0100

Adoption of Oregon Electrical Specialty Code

(1) Effective April 1, 2011, the 2011 Oregon Electrical Specialty Code consists of the following:

(a) 2011 Edition of the NFPA 70, National Electrical Code (NEC), and further amended by the division in Table 1-E;

(b) 2007 Edition of the IEEE C2-2007, National Electrical Safety Code (NESC); and

(c) The electrical provisions of the Oregon Elevator Specialty Code adopted in OAR 918-400-0455.

(2) In the event of a conflict between the NEC and NESC requirements, the NEC requirement, as amended in subsection (1)(a) of this rule, applies.

(3) As used in this rule:

(a) “ANSI” is the American National Standards Institute;

(b) “ASME” is the American Society of Mechanical Engineers;

(c) “IEEE” is the Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers; and

(d) “NFPA” is the National Fire Protection Association.

And in their "interpertation" they can legally tell you the distance required.

Nah, you don't step on Superman's cape around these parts. One little check mark in the "failed" column and your life is hell.

Article 90.4 in the NEC talks about local rules. Couldn't find anything in your link (FL Building Codes)about structured cabling)... :shrug:

If the inspector is going to flunk your work, he has to site the code. That's the way it works around here. Unfortunately (of fortunately) if you challenge the inspectors around here, more times than not,they'll just pass it. But in any event, the inspector has to point to the exact code that's being violated. I'm with Hal on this.

OK. I'll get right on that...

C'mon down to FL. I'll introduce you to "Moe" (if he's still alive), one of the electrical inspector's for the city of Ft. Lauderdale. After Moe get's finished with you, you'll wish you had wrestled an alligator instead.

You DON'T argue with building inspectors here. It get's you absolutely nowhere, except a delayed project.

I did prove to an inspector once that the white plenum tie-wraps I used were in fact plenum by showing him the bag they came in. Prior to me digging that bag out of the trash, my installation was heading for "failed".

Well, unfortunately, that shows how much respect Moe has for you and other professionals. In my opinion Moe is the problem and needs to be dealt with. No one person is bigger than the codes or laws. If Moe is so powerful, then obviously he's more than familiar with the NEC and should simply quote you the section and details of the code he's flunking you on. There was a time when we had "Moe's" here. They've since been fired.

You don't mess with the "Moe"! :nono:

And when dealing with the Cities of Sunrise or Plantation, it's best to wear a Nazi pin on your shirt. They'll warm up to you better.

Danny, are you saying that they give new meaning to the term "planned community?"

Yikes.

Jim
**************************************************
Speaking from a secure undisclosed location.

Oh no...I didn't mean that in an Anti-Semetic way, I meant that the building inspectors in those two cities are like Nazi's when it comes to dealing with us low-life contractor's.

The way I have found to deal with problem inspectors is to gain their respect is first by knowing the Code as well or better than they do. Ask them questions and offer your educated opinion. Establish that you are not some dumb wire monkey like the smart ass CGs they have to deal with. If their request is something that isn't going to cost you a great deal, it's often easier just to comply but if it's going to be costly then by all means object to it if you know you are right.

By the way, if I saw white ty-raps I wouldn't think they were plenum rated either. You should have known to either stick the bag to the wall with a note to the inspector or use red ones. Or you could just not use ty-raps at all and use steel tie wire like I do. Lots cheaper too.

-Hal

There is no "code" that states how often low voltage should be supported. ANSI/TIA/EIA/BICSI standards are every 5' you can go less than that but the length should not exceed 5'. Around here written documentation is required before failing anything we do. They cant just make stuff up and yes we've argued and won many times.

Danny, you don't have to move all the beams. Move the first 1 2feet, the 2nd 1 4feet, put a new one in @ 4 feet, move the next one the other direction 2 feet,. You figure it out, but some won't have to be moved if you do it right! (:

Move the beams???? Looks like there plenty of places to hang supports so if you don't feel like arguing then hang your supports every 4' feet and call it a day

Why not just install conduit through the beams and be done with it? :shrug:

Is this really a picture of the job you're talking about? I've never in all my life seen OSB board spanned at 6'. As stated above, install hangers or conduit.

Um, I think that the "move the beams" comment was tongue-in-cheek. I really don't think that this suggestion was serious. Come on, guys....

So do we not have senses of humor anymore?

Conduit? I don't do conduit. (Actually, I have to do conduit tomorrow for a fiber install).

Only older buildings here have conduit installed for low-voltage.

No, just a pic from the 'net demonstrating the types of beams involved, spanned 6' o/c. They can't be moved. Supported every 6' won't pass here. I'll be installing hangers in-between, I guess.

Supported every 6' wont pass anywhere. No more than 5' is the standard.

Except that the OSB has 'surprising' strength. :rofl: