Why don't IP phones have universal many DSS buttons like digital system phones?

Please let me know if you guy agree with me or not.

I find it very annoying and strange that IP phone don't have very many (if any) DSS buttons that you can program almost a shortcut for calling another extension or have a feature programmed on it?

Is the concept that these buttons are replaced with a LCD interfacing that lets you scroll through options?

I know on my phone system, I have a button programmed for each employee at my company, buttons to tell me when certain trunks are in use, voicemail message button, voicemail transfer button, regular transfer button, speed dials, conference button, DND, last number dialed, park Orbit(0-9 possible orbits) buttons, etc. You get the idea. I think each phone in my office has 28 universal DSS buttons that you can program to do whatever you want. There is a list of about 100 different features or shortcuts you can use.

I have never used Asterisks before but I do have a lot of experience with regular PBX systems and I very confused why the IP phones don't have the same number of universal DSS buttons that normal digital phones have.

Please let me know what your take on this is.

Thanks.

For the most part the typical shortcomings such as lask of DSS keys, DND buttons, mulitple intercom paths present in IP systems comes from the lack of an everyday telecom background in the R & D Process. Call routing and handling patterns vary so much from install to install and business to business that it really takes years of being involved on a daily basis to learn all of the nuances of the telcom and interconnect business. If this background isn't there during R&D something simple will end up missing.

You will also see with the newer IP systems for small business that other features are not there yet either. For instance, call hold and pickup (must transfer the call) no handsfree intercom, no line appearances. We as delers get adds every day for new IP products that are far from ready for prime time. The IT groups rushing to get into the IP phone business are more interested in this stuff at this point.

Funny, my NEC and Tadiran IP phones have DSS keys and work just like a regular phone.

The esi IP phones have DSS keys and direct line keys also. But like upstate said a lack of Telco background.... NEC, Tadiran and esi all have been in the Telco business for years.

ESI 30 programmable keys plus a 60 button DSS. i think they expect you to use the PC call managers like a receptionist

For the most part the typical shortcomings... present in IP systems comes from the lack of an everyday telecom background in the R & D Process. Call routing and handling patterns vary so much from install to install and business to business that it really takes years of being involved on a daily basis to learn all of the nuances of the telcom and interconnect business.

Right. I think we should start recognizing IP systems for what they really are- computer simulations of real phone systems, and the old computer axiom applies- garbage in= garbage out.

The "programmers" and computer geeks who designed them only know telephone from their own limited and sheltered experience so this is what you have. Because of their egos they decided to reinvent the wheel for their own gain.

-Hal

How about the simple fact that Asterisk is a PBX, not a key system? Most all of asterisk's operation is inbound. Outbound dialing is mostly limited to dialing 9, to get an "outside line". (or whatever number's setup in the dialing plans)

There's no standard for DSS keys in IP, and likely won't be for a while. There are speed-dials, which may be as close as you get. Grandstream has a "4-line" IP phone, but that doesn't mean it shows you 4 CO lines. It means you can "pick up" a "dial tone" from one of four buttons on the top of the unit, and put them all on hold and directly retrieve them at will. But if I put a call on hold with one button, no one else can retrieve it that way.

ESI's IP phone, and I'm sure most others are proprietary, and the signaling to make the DSS keys work is not encapsulated with the VoIP traffic, it's a separate data stream.

Allworx 6 and 10 units can be used as either a key system with standard phone system features, or a pbx like everyone else's systems.
The larger phone has 12 programmable buttons

I've also wondered the same thing and have concluded that IP systems with few or no univeral buttons are useless for both key system and PBX installations. It seems the IT industry thinks that a PC based call manager or large screen phone takes the place of buttons. I disagree. They have not accounted for the down sides. If I was using a GUI interface for example, I would not be able access phone features right now without minimizing my data application or having a dual monitor. Large screen phones with softkeys also can't take the place of feature buttons because they cannot indicate the status of a feature/s at a glance.

"How about the simple fact that Asterisk is a PBX, not a key system? Most all of asterisk's operation is inbound. Outbound dialing is mostly limited to dialing 9, to get an "outside line". (or whatever number's setup in the dialing plans)"

I wouldn't even go as far as calling an Asterisk a PBX. Someone wanted a cheap way to make telephone calls over IP, so along it came. IP still has a way to go to become mainstream. the only advantage i see for IP is if you have a lot of remote users or telecommuters. A static business office with a binch of employees all in the same building garner no benefit from a VoIP system.

Forget about the VOIP issue with the IP phones. It seems like they don't even function correctly as an inter-office intercom system because of the lack of monitoring buttons. A manager can't have a direct DSS button to monitor other extensions or see when they are on the phone.

Residential users want a button to be assigned to every room in the house for quick access for each room; they don't want to scroll down a menu to find a room! They want a quick brainless press of a button.

Is it that the IP phones can't do it?
or is it that the IP phones just don't want to do it because they think the LCD screen replaces the need for DSS buttons?

Forget about the VOIP issue with the IP phones. It seems like they don't even function correctly as an inter-office intercom system because of the lack of monitoring buttons. A manager can't have a direct DSS button to monitor other extensions or see when they are on the phone.

Residential users want a button to be assigned to every room in the house for quick access for each room; they don't want to scroll down a menu to find a room! They want a quick brainless press of a button.

Is it that the IP phones can't do it?
or is it that the IP phones just don't want to do it because they think the LCD screen replaces the need for DSS buttons?

It seems the IT industry thinks that a PC based call manager or large screen phone takes the place of buttons.

What do you expect? They grew up in front of a computer or video game.

Then their mommy's and daddy's sent them off to college to get MBA degrees so know they are trying to make money off the only thing they know how to do.

-Hal

It depends on th emodel of IP set. If it is behind a manufacturer PBX of the same type and model chances are you will have alomost all TDM functionality. Several guys have said their Tadiran,ESI, and NEC sets have them. I know the Comdial Vertical I Primo IP set does. Where I see the loss of features is in the SIP set offerings. Lot of the VoIP PBXs that are coming out today are very short in the feature list department. Nothing like telling the customer they have to hit feat. button *33#455 to transfer or conference.

Thanks johhz. You're absolutely right. Everything that everyone has stated in this thread in regards to wanting different things...the Allworx solutions can handle.

Allworx has All Page And voice intercom to all sets????

Whats 12 buttons?? What if you have 30 phones. How does recption see who on the phone???
And if you say PC screen will it work on a non brand
new PC with 5 apps open???

Yeah...you can intercom all sets, or set up individual zones, or individual users. As for the question about having 30 phones, you can do it 2 ways. Either through our Live Calls Report screen a reception would have up, or through our Call Assistant software that allows you to see every single person in the company, and what they are doing (phone wise). We've tested it to work with MANY applications open on the computer, including memory hogging software pieces.

I'm thinking of becoming an Allworx dealer, but the only real thing that bothers me is to eliminate the 110 volt power adapter, you need a new hub with poe (power over ethernet). This increases the price of the system where it makes it hard for the customer to justify. Does anyone know of any good, and reasonabilly priced poe hubs?

Is the system still sold by Bizfone???
When you say intercom all sets do you mean All Page as in one way voice broadcast to all sets that are idle. And voice intercom meaning call 1 phone that is idle and the speakerphone comes on with the mic open???

Toshiba IP phones operate the same as the TDM phones. Up to 60 fully programmable buttons on the phone, plus 1 (or 2 if I remember right) 60 button console can be associated with a phone.

brokeda,
yeah, the IP system that Bizfone sells is the Allworks one as far as I know...but things change quick!

It seems as was mentioned earlier, if you have an IP system made by a telephone manufacturer like Toshiba, Vodavi, Siemens, Avaya (kind of),you are going to get the feature you want (for the most part) but if it is by a Data vendor...cough, cough, Cisco..cough.....good luck getting the typical telephone features you have come ot expect without big bucks....

Steve

Bizphone only OEM's the Allworx 10x from us. Not the phones or the Allworx 6x. We are the original manufacturer of everything. There's nothing in place where they will OEM our other solutions and software pieces in the future.

John,

It's a good product, but the 110 issue isn't the one you should worry about! Netgear makes a 24 port 100Mhz POE for like $400 that works cherry with the system! Even adding that in, you should be competative with other brands like
Avaya IP and others. No the issue you should be VERY worried about is regarding dealer channel and protection which doesn't exist.

Corwyn

Again: When you say intercom all sets do you mean All Page as in one way voice broadcast to all sets that are idle. And voice intercom meaning call 1 phone that is idle and the speakerphone comes on with the mic open???
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes you can do both you can dial a page zone
ie 46(0) there are actualy 9 zones that you can create which include local and remote phones and you can intercom from station to station.


Corwyn

This is
Allworx?

what is? What I descibed above? Yes the 10x allworx brand and the 7000 bizfon brand do this. THe only difference betwen the 2 is that the allworx brand has the calendering feature that NO ONE I've ever heard of uses.
Ditto for all the other crap they shoved in there - web host, file server and e-mail server.

Again the product is great for the niche, but you have zero standing so you have no idea where you are. Like I said, if you can live with that the product is great, but if you are looking for some kind of an organized dealer channel and protection you're in the WRONG place. Right now they claim they're not oeming the 6x but if john the butcher or hello direct or abecromby and fitch plops down enough cash -well lets just say I wouldn't be at all surprised.

We're getting set up with Allworx. The product seems to be the best we've seen so far. As mentioned, they need a 24 button phone. It's a joke to have to switch applications on your computer to see your phone--unless you're the live attendant where that's the only application you run. They claim they will protect the VAR channel. We'll find out soon if they stick to this!

Stumbling into this thread....

The only one I've heard of is Comdial and I wasn't impressed with their Key Systems.

esi is looking interesting.

Tadiran doesn't look too bad, nor does Allworx, but what is the track record of these three companies?

And then there is the Vodavi XTSc.

We do ESi and Tadiran. Both are really good at what they do. Tadiran has been around a while and their systems are very well engineered and made to last a long time. Not for the new telephone guy or wanna be IT guy that thinks he understands PBX systems because he has an MCSE. The basic I&M class used to be 3 weeks and people failed. The system is complex and flexible, probably one the most capable systems on the market if not the most capable system all around. Version 15 supports SIP and MGCP.

ESI, what can you say, the system sells itself, it's easy hell to program but it's not designed to last forever. Being based on a hard drive you can expect failure every 5 years. Numbering plans aren't the best. ARS, weak at best. But, you have to like the system and the concept. This system is NOT designed for large scale ACD call centers or networking like the Tadiran.

I like both systems but there is a reason we carry multiple brands because very simply there is not one system that can cover everyones needs and pocketbook.

Timely.
I get frustrated with digital phones (on a digital phone system) that don't have enough buttons let alone an IP phone with little or no buttons.

My boss just (like 10 minutes ago) had a visit from a systems integration company who sells allworx as a part of their voice and data services. He dropped of the literature for me to look at.

Hal nailed it. Data folks just thinking like data folks, and not having the insight to do it the right way. "Just pull up a menu on your PC and ..." Are you kidding?
A phone makes a real good phone. Why do we keep trying to push a square peg into a round hole? I don't know a polite way to say it, and I don't want it to sound like us vs them (voice vs data), but it's a bunch of data guys trying to create a "data" product to replace a "voice" product. Can't blame em for trying. There appear to be some attractive applications. Just can't see replacing an Avaya G3r that works every day and NEVER has to be rebooted. My God if the phone system was a unreliable as our (typical) data network I'd lose my job in a week.

Back to allworx. The salesman told my boss that our existing Avaya digital phones would integate into their system. Surely he was not trying to say I could plug a 84xx or 64xx into an allworx 10x and expect it to work??? Maybe he was saying that the allworx box could be plugged into my PBX. I'm gonna call this guy to see what he sez...


Richard

The Mitel 3300 has every feature and more that the SX2000 offers . You must be on a Cisco Call Manager System . They are feature less to say the least ! I am not product bashing , that is just my opinion !

My boss just showed me the feature on the Cisco phone to pull up a simple webpage and interact with it. The webpage could in theory interact with the Cisco Call Manager or Asterisk. The trick is that neither system has a default webpage interface that is designed for the Cisco phone.

Point being, he says is that DSS buttons can be emulated via a webpage, and that webpage can be viewed on the phone, no PC ABSOLUTELY required, but obviously the user requires a PC for other things.

I noticed no one mentioned SNOM phones. Coupled with Asterisk, the combo works every bit as good as a traditional pbx or key system (depending on how you configure it), and IMO it blows away the current commercial products available on the market (Altigen, ESI, 3Com, Cisco, etc.). The 320 and 360 both offer 12 buttons for features, line indication, station id's, etc. They also sell a nice sidecar for the 360 phone with 42 additional buttons. While they don't specifically state it on the web side, the sidecar works perfectly with the 320 phone as of the latest firmware. We've tested it on the 320, and it works flawlessly.

We've just completed our testing of SNOM phones and Asterisk, and now we intend to deploy them company-wide. The system will serve several teleworkers and 20 office staff between two out of state locations. Due to the open standards of Asterisk and Linux, we are able to fully integrate this system with our newly (in house) designed customer management and ordering system. We will save over $10k with this system vs. commercial offerings with fewer features and less scalability, not to mention amazing amounts of labor cost due to the efficiencies from our total integration. Put simply, an employee can do about twice the work of an employee of a competing company.

Again, in my opinion, no commercial offering can touch Asterisk. It can do anything you can competently program it to do, and it can integrate with just about anything. The issue has always been the lack of quality, well designed phones, and we've found that in the SNOM line.

My opinion, for what it's worth, is that Asterisk based VoIP systems will soon begin to gain a great deal of credibility once more solid phones are available. It allows companies, vendors and phone techs to avoid being held hostage by phone system companies. I see this trending to the point of becoming a major portion of the market in the SMB segment very soon. Phone techs would be wise to learn Asterisk now. There is a lot of money to be made by setting these up and supporting them. Likewise, I think there is a big risk in losing a lot of future sales and support contracts if you don't AT LEAST become familiar with it as soon as you can.

It's a technology worth embracing... not shunning out of fear.

Thanks for the info weiss the Snom line looks nice I am trying to learn the Asterisk as are several other phone tech here hope you hang out here so we can pick your brain a little for anyone interested heres the link to Snom
https://www.snom.com/phones.html

My 2 cents on the original question...most if not all of the IP systems have interactive software that is on the desktop that provides all the functionality that originally required soft keys. Point and click instead of pushing a button. I agree that the soft button on the phone is much more conveinent but the premise still exists on the new IP systems through the interactive pop up on the PC.

"Again, in my opinion, no commercial offering can touch Asterisk."

This is a joke right?

No joke, but I'd like to hear your reasons for disagreement.

Not a problem! It is truly amazing what you can do with Asterisk.

Ok I'll bite:
Take this key system, https://www.necunifiedsolutions.com/Downloads/PDFs/UBSD/0893060_Aspire_S.pdf then compare this feature list:

https://www.asterisk.org/features


How about actually justifying your opinion? This is generally how discussions are held. Not that I don't like Asterisk, as I have had a linux box running Asterisk (and updated) for a few years. I mearly don't see where you are coming from to make that statement.

Weiss,

Please post for we the unlearned will be able to learn.

There are many of us out here that have limited experience and would love to see the comparison here on the board, I'm sure.

Will be awaiting the info,

KLD

Arrgggg.... Okay. I'll explain because it appears you are missing the concept of what Asterisk actually is.

Asterisk is a development platform first off. Albeit, one that comes preconfigured with many common options and features one might expect or desire in a phone system (as you managed to find on the Asterisk features list... see also Trixbox, formerly Asterisk@Home, for a simple install that works for many of the more common situations with many more added "features"). From there, you can configure it yourself (assuming you have spent the time to learn how, which doesn't take long at all). Being an OPEN system, you can change just about anything you want through programming changes or through configuration script edits. You can also allow other systems (computers, other software, other phone systems, etc.) to control, communicate with or serve info to your Asterisk system through a multitude of ways. Quite simply, you can do basically anything with it.

Can Asterisk do all the neato stuff listed in that nifty little NEC pdf? Absolutely! Do you need all of that for every installation? NO! Do you sometimes need "other stuff" that the NEC can't do? Of course! With Asterisk, you customize it to do exactly what you want and nothing more. We're not talking about a cookie cutter solution here. We are talking about a solution that can easily be TAILOR MADE to fit the needs and desires of the customer/user. If you decide later to add a "feature", you program it in, use any number of free scripts, controls or software most of which is FREELY available, or if it's a simple thing (like most of the NEC "features"), you add a couple of lines to the config and you're done. You don't have to buy an addon module or a software update.

I regret to admit that the one "feature" Asterisk is lacking is LIMITS. Limits on voice mail ports, number of voice mail boxes or messages per box... All of which that NEC system "features". 16 IP Terminals as a MAX? Are you kidding me? The list goes on...

Also, Asterisk can use more or less any codec/protocol you can throw at it. It appears, at least according to the literature, that the NEC is stuck with H.323. YUCK. <sarcasm>Boy that sure is state of the art stuff there. </sarcasm>

If I haven't "justified" properly, please, let me know. I'll try to do better.

Umm, I took the list of features right off the Asterisk site. I have a hard time believing you can duplicate every feature of a small "key" system in every way seeing how I have had an Asterisk system running for some time (notice I was simply making a point of features NOT size as the system in the pdf is of course small). Not that it's bad at all..quite the contrary, I am not trying to say that, but to come here and say you can duplicate the exact feature of every system out there I have to take issue with from a technical and professional stance. If you can you have my complete attention

BTW, where are your digital phones for Asterisk? The ones that can run on a single pair of wire 2000+ feet away from the nearest power source? The NEC does support g7.29 and most common protocals and codecs...simply older pdf and software revision and it IS a small key/hybrid after all.

"If I haven't "justified" properly, please, let me know. I'll try to do better."

Please indulge me I am listening and learning....

weiss don't let us scare you off you will find a lot of negative feelings for voip here but there is also a lot of people wanting to learn more about it this type of discussion can teach us all something :thumb:

Like I said I am listening. I am not by ANY means a linux/unix guru, and getting Asterisk up and stable was a PITA...and alot of seaching the open source forums. I do NOT want to scare off a potential source of info on this system...I just want to see HOW you can make it happen from a hardware/topology/software way.

How about those Asterisk gateways that are required to sit between your box and the telco? We've had more than one company call us after using one of those Asterisk boxes and having quality of service problems on PSTN calls. Also I'd like to hear you explain how you write a script that will allow for hands free intercom, softkey navigation of voicemail menus etc. I could go on but will stop here. Bottom line is that Asterisk is cool because it's open source but that's about it. What engineering group stands behind you when there are problems that your company can't solve by itself?

we're using the ShoreTel system, which has both the point and click software, and also has hardware-based DSS buttons available (the BB24).

both/either work well, it is simply that different users prefer varying solutions -- but we're used to that, right? whatever keeps 'em happy and working is good with me. if it comes down to money, I let the user and their management justify/not justify.

Even Alcatel ip phones have all the facilities which is available in normal digital phones,it has very good models,with 12 to 24 buttons DSS,menu driven parameters,voicemail accessing key etc.

Siemens IP phones have 98% of the PBX features that their system have including DSS, BLF, Vmail keys, soft keys and just about everything else you could think of, including paging and intercom. I think that we are all going back to the point that (for the most part) a manufacturer of telephone equipment, be they Alcatel, Siemens, Toshiba, or Mitel can and do make good IP phone systems, it is when a data company decides to make a telephone system that things get poorly done, even if they have a HUGE data name, cough cough, CISCO, cough....they may sell some volume of equipment, but it is not thought of as a telephone system by its programmers, it is thought of as a data network that happens to have telephones on it, thereby making them second fiddle to other issues.

Steve

No mention of Inter-Tel here yet?
Our IP phones have full functionality of our digital keysets and at first glance look exactly the same.
If you use one our dual mode phones in SIP mode, of course you'll loose many of those features...
They are turning out to be a decent product and a good fit for some businesses.

First I'm a computer guy and an asterisk guy, I don't know much about analog PBX's although i've worked with them a few times...
Skimmed the thread, few comments...

First- Asterisk by itself is like a big tub of Legos. You can make something very cool with it, IF you know what you're doing. If a project is to from scratch set up an Asterisk install to do (features), how well that will work is very dependant on how familiar the tech is with *. Unlike a normal small biz PBX or key/hybrid where you can fill out the programming sheet and then follow a procedure to program it, Asterisk must be created uniquely for each installation, down to even the simple stuff like making one extension dial another. For someone that is new to *, this can be VERY frustrating. Additionally, simple features that most PBX's have must usually be added by hand to the dialplan. This turns a lot of people off Asterisk; it does not seem useful to have to sit and set up manually 'features' like the ability to dial out when you can buy a PBX and plug it in and be done.
However Asterisk's great weakness is also its strength, because the legos are not glued together like a PBX, you can make literally ANYthing you want. There are no limits to number of ports, number of extensions, or how much voicemail can be stored, you are only limited by the machine it is running on. Never will you have to pay more money to license more voicemail ports, for example. And the classes of service Asterisk can provide far outspec any PBX you can come up with. This is how asterisk got its name- in computer terms, the "*" character is a wildcard, which means it matches any '0 or more characters', aka * matches anything. Asterisk is much like this- it will accept a call on almost any sort of interface and protocol, do almost anything you want to it, and spit it out again on almost any other interface. It is the ultimate in flexibility.
That's not to say its perfect. Its complication turns off many users, and to address this need packages like Trixbox have sprung up. Trixbox is a full *nix distribution (operating system) that installs itself from a CD. In about 30 minutes, it will take a normal computer and turn it into a somewhat slick PBX with a web interface to configure it and all the trimmings of a normal PBX, no programming required. Many companies are selling the same thing as PBX appliances, sell a machine with asterisk+stuff on it as a pbx unit and are making tons of money doing it.

I have worked with Asterisk since before v1.0, hell even before there WERE version numbers (you just checked out the development code...). I have found one, and only one feature that Asterisk cannot usefully do- SLA (Shared Line Appearance). This is how (on a key system or hybrid), you have a LED button assigned to an analog line. If someone uses the line, it lights up. If you push that button, you barge in on the line and are now 3waying with the guy on the line and the other user who called him. Asterisk has yet to develop (that I know of) a useful way of doing this. However due to large demand (more on that below) it's planned for inclusion in their next major release (1.4).


Back on topic of the thread...
Many of the IP phones out there do not have a handful of programmable keys because in a large enterprise environment, they are of limited use. In a company with 500 people, you will only need 5 or 10 keys- your assistant, others in yoru workgroup, maybe a few other things. The other 495 people you don't care about. Until recently, real VoIP installations have been limited to either proprietary products from various companies or very large deployments as I mentioned above.

There are a few models that address the 'receptionist' need, for example there are a few Cisco phones that can take sidecar units which are nothing but a big pad with 40 or so programmable LED keys. Snom as I recall has a sidecar for their excellent 360 phone (highly recommended). However, 95% of the users in a large enterprise don't need 20 softkeys, as many of them (hold/xfer/conf/etc) are already on the phone.

In short- there was no demand for them. That is changing. VoIP has gone mainstream. 'Cheap' IP phones don't cost $300 anymore, service is more widely available and more reliable, and everybody wants in, especially SMB where pennies count.

Things like web interface panels and computer software are workarounds to attempt to address a newly formed need, and they do a decent but not very good job of doing it. In a home or SMB environment, no software or LCD soft menu will be able to replace picking up the phone and pushing the ONE button that dials who you want.

So I suspect that over the next several months, manufacturers will start to offer IP phones with handfuls of keys as the Home/SMB voip market develops. Inter-Tel is one that I know of, their phones have a handful of softkeys. (Intertel phones can also use a proprietary intertel protocol to work with an intertel PBX...) Snom 320 and 360 have 12 keys + all the other buttons so they do not take softkeys for VM/DND/etc. AAstra 9133 has 9 keys as I recall.

Well, IronHelix, I must say that you are among a very few people who are more IT-oriented to come here and have a more realistic outlook in the TDM to VOIP convergence. Most people approach this as "pro or con". I am one of them.

I enjoyed reading your post and feel that if manufacturers of TDM systems slow the pace in their rush to get into the IP side of things, they may be met with less resistance by their existing dealers.

You did a good job of offering a better view of how things are heading. Please do what you can to help us all migrate in to the new technology. I think that the overall consensus is that this technology was dropped into our laps overnight, while existing voice technology has been just fine left alone for nearly thirty years.

Nobody here can claim to know everything, so I say welcome aboard and we look forward to your input and guidance.

Now, if you would please complete your profile information, it would be appreciated so that we know who/what/where you are. It's just a common courtesy that we ask of all members.

While I speak for myself, I look forward to more information that you have to offer.

Thanks for your kind comments... profile filled out And just to warn you, I have a habit of being... verbose... at times...

I think it boils down to in some cases a fundamental difference between the existing telephony market (manufacturers, installers, users, etc) vs the IT market- IT guys are used to having large changes happen relatively quickly, which is required when the life cycle of a product may be only 4-5 years at the outside. (Would you use a computer from 1996? Probably not. Would you use a telephone from 1996? Absolutely, it's still as good as one you buy today). I recently had a VoIP client who only hired me because their 15yr old KSU cought fire when they tried to add another extension to it. Other than a few problems with old analog wiring, they loved the thing and were sorry to see it go. I've seen a few clients with 10 year old computer systems, but not many, and they are usually very eager to get up to date.
So as a result, since VoIP technology was being developed on the computer side of things, it's rolled out rather quickly as soon as the products are mature enough to be used and there is demand. Demand especially, VoIP has become a buzzword- a lot of people (customers) don't quite understand how it works, but they know it will probably save them money so they want it. A lot of other customers understand the flexibility it will give them, and they want it even more. Demand springs up overnight, everybody starts making VoIP gear, and this leaves an entire industry going 'WTF just happened?' as their product lines are turned upside down and their industry in general jumps ship into the IT Department side of things...

For those that want to get into VoIP more, a few suggestions-
First, understand that hardware is not software. A standard analog PBX may have modules which either work or don't; VoIP is often based on a computer and there are a thousand more levels of complexity (and thus problems) that go with it. Hardware failures happen, but software related issues (misconfiguration, bug, conflict with something else, network problem, etc) are going to cause most of the issues you have.

To that end- learn computers. Understand basic computer troubleshooting, networking, etc. Especially networking. I can't speak for big manufacturers, but I could guesstimate that a lot of the VoIP server systems are going to be software that will share a server with other things. Asterisk is such a system. If you can come to a clien't site and competently install it on an existing server, you will be a much more valuable worker.
When you learn this- CONCEPTUALIZE, DON'T PROCEDURALIZE. What i mean by that is 'To do X, perform in order steps A B C D'. If you just remember that procedure, and don't understand the concept of what steps A-D do, you will be far less effective. On the other hand, if you understand what the steps do, then it is easy to figure out that to do Y, do steps A D C E.

Anyway i'll stick around and I have email notify turned on, so if any of you have questions about VoIP or Asterisk, ask away

Ironhelix if you get a chance please post the link to your paper on * being installed on an AT@T Partner system as a voice mail replacement. You did a very thorough analysis of the installation and programming. Saw it on another board. Great info.

Welcome to the board IronHelix its been interesting reading your posts I am glad to see Astrisk being discussed and hope you can teach us more about it. I would like to see that article RBF mentioned also. I hope you hang out here for awhile but I'll warn you some people here don't like Voip or IT guys. I think * would be a great addition for several of my customers and want to learn more about it. If you want into the installers section you can post your request here.
https://www.sundance-communications.com/forum/ultimatebb.php?/ubb/get_topic/f/1/t/001607.html
:rofl:

Hi, here is the link for anyone interested- my writeup on replacing the PartnerMail Short version- client didnt like his PartnerMailVS and wanted voicemail-to-email so I set up a VoIP server connected to 4 free extension ports that pretends to be a PartnerMail. Works great.

I've already noticed some resistance to VoIP but it's cool, everybody has an opinion. I'll stick around and answer what I can, and you all are welcome to PM me if you have any VoIP or Asterisk questions...

LOL I stumbled in here to read everyone's post and no one has posted since August 2006. I take it everyone is out trying to teach customers how the hell to click on a web browser and answer a phone call. These are the same people that need instructions on how to answer a phone that's ringing audibly with a flashing light. I've seen a lot of changes in telecommunications in the last 30 years and all I can say is god help us...


CISCO = Can I Still Call Out?

Hmmm....

Well, this is what I get for playing with my blackberry pearl (the boss got them for us, I think I'm getting used to typing on this ruddy thing!) and going to this site!

Well as for us, we are working on a service platform that uses a T1, SIP trunks, and the asteriskNow appliance. We're still working out some bugs, but will be selling soon. Bo' it can't do all the things the InterTel, Avaya, DSX, etc. Can do, but then, it doesn't have to!

We see it as a price point VOIP system (sorry, VOIP isn't going to go away). Eventaully, we all will have to adapt.

Also, remember, TDM systems won't just disappear for a loong time either!

Ahhh man, didn't we have an icon of someone beating a dead horse around here somewhere?

It all works depending on the needs

Hmmm...



No, no...not quite...



Might fit, but no...

Wait!




Looks like I found it!

The asterisk is strong with this one! LOL

We sell, install and maintain Tadiran systems and have since the early 1980's. The IP provisioning is WONDERFUL!! We are also now doing Asterisk and MANY things that the Tadiran does very, very simply are not so simple in the Asterisk, ie. how many lines of code does it take in the Asterisk to simply toll restrict specific stations and allow others full access?? Secondly, while SOME of the components of the Asterisk are relatively inexpensive, much of this "free" system is NOT. Purchasing the right server/s, gateways etc. are NOT inexpensive and we often find that deploying a Tadiran to a IP environment is significantly LESS expensive and far more user friendly (Gawd, I HATE that term!!)

YES, the world of SIP telephony is upon us and will continue to be so, but until more telephone types (like most of us here) get into the game, feature function of these systems is going to be rough sledding for the end user.

Ahhhh, how many lines indeed. Let us count the ways...

First we have one method that assumes you dont want any long-distance dialing (one-line):
exten => _NXXNXXXXXX,1,congestion


Unless you are referring to blocking 900#'s, then it's 4...

exten => _900NXXXXXX,1,congestion
exten => _976NXXXXXX,1,congestion
exten => _977NXXXXXX,1,congestion
exten => _978NXXXXXX,1,congestion

Unless you just want to allow local calling to your free LATA, then it's 1 line for 7-digit plus one line for each of your 10-digit LATA.

exten => _NXXXXXX,1,Dial(Zap/G1)
exten => _727NXXXXXX,1,Dial(Zap/G1)
exten => _813NXXXXXX,1,Dial(Zap/G1)
exten => _863NXXXXXX,1,Dial(Zap/G1)
exten => _941NXXXXXX,1,Dial(Zap/G1)

(those are my "local" dialing area's)

Ofcourse, to just allow everything to dial is just 1 line as well:

exten => _X.,1,Dial(Zap/G1)

The point is that it's not necessarily harder, just different then what you are used to. The difference is everyone is approaching Asterisk expecting the low-level stuff to be done already leaving just the high level configuration, like assigning BLF's, assigning extensions, programming IVR menus/prompts. When you get greeted with programming an IVR from scratch it becomes overwhelming most of the time. It would be like if your tadiran showed up with no software on it and you had to write it. That's more along the lines of what Asterisk is.

Hey there Kumba!! Good response, BUT (there's ALWAYS one of those isn't there?) What I want to do is exclude SOME stations from dialing long distance, not ALL of the stations. And I can't just allocate a specific line/trunk here, the client has too few trunks already!!

I'd like to clarify a bit here also. YES, I am PROUDLY a "telephone guy". I've spent the past 30 years in this career and I love it, always have. I also embrace the world of "Computer Telephony", it is exciting and challenging and the future for all of us. Perhaps the most challenging aspect of this, for me anyway, is learning linux and Asterisk. Believe me, learning to write those lines of code and understanding what the hell I'm creating is a bit daunting at 61 years of age! I learned how to program in Basic in the 70's, and for many years I would got to a DOS prompt from windows and use the DOS commands to make our PC's do what I wanted them to do, and got it done MUCH more quickly than I could using the Windows commands.

I WILL learn all of this, I have already implemented a couple of Asterisk systems using the "crutch" of trixbox and I'm happy with the results, because my clients are happy with them.

We at this company pride ourselves on creative implementations and developments. Using a Tadiran as the host system and a combination of Samsung DCS (old versions), Tadiran IP phones at other locations, Multitech MVP products on an AT&T MPLS network and a lot of brainwork, we have been able to do some things that all of these manufacturers told us woouldn't work. Like, sending a call to an 800 number for one specific remote location over the E&M set-up of the multitechs and in a no-answer condition having that call overflow to yet another remote location for call coverage. Sounds simple huh? The Tadiran assumes the call has been anwered on the far side becaues the Multiteh has "handled" the call and the Samsung simply will NOT do a call forwrd external over E&M.

"nough said...creativity and working on the "slick board is a way of life for us.....even us old telephone guys!!

PM Sent for a better method to do dialing control (off-topic for this post)