Aren't wink-start trunks the same as loop start?

Wink is just the signaling that the loop start uses; correct?

Sort of. The wink is actually a momentary polarity reversal that alerts the receiving switch to prepare to receive digits. Other than that, yes it is a basic two-wire loop.

No, wink you must get a ready (wink) from the far end before your swith will do anything. You could close the loop all day long and never be able to make a call. You may be thinking of immediate start trunks.

OK it's loop after the fact, but so's ground start. Wink, I go off hook far end sends wink I send digits. Immediate, I go off hook, send digits. Delay, I go off hook, wait, send digits. They all end up being loop after the call is connected. But you said loop "start" so No.

Edit: removed wink wink to not add to the confusion.

So, let me get this right. You are saying that there are three main analog trunk types; loop start, wink start and ground start?

So if a customer has wink-start trunks and the new switch that will be installed requires loop start, then the customer needs to call the carrier and have their trunks converted from wink-start to loop. Is that correct?

I always thought that wink-start was the same as loop start and wink would work with a switch that requires loop.

No they would probably work "IF" set to delay. They would not work set as pure immediate loop start trunks. The wink is for you not the far end. On the other hand if the far end expects a wink from you before sending the off hook, ring or digits, they would not work coming in. Yes order the trunks you need don't use wink and try to make them work.

Yes, they will need to have them converted. Wink start is usually only used for DID or tie line trunks. I don't think I have ever heard of them actually being used for dial tone.

Great info guys; so lets see, so DID lines you will have a dry line, no dial tone (for lack of better terms) and the CO wants to send a call down the line, the on premise equip will send a wink to let the CO know to go ahead a send the digits.

Is that right?

Yes.

You can have DT with wink, it's rare. Wink is not just for 2 wire circuits.

Biggest difference in loop/ground start and wink start is where the signaling battery source is located.

For loop or ground start battery source is at the Telco switch. (These two signaling types are more closely related than wink and loop would be.)

For WINK start battery is supplied from the customer end.

Just for conversation sake I’d mention the 4th type of signaling is E&M.

T1E&M (4-wire circuits) come in 2 flavors:

Immediate- where CPE or CO goes off hook and dials digits out.

Wink- where CPE or CO goes off hook and the other end toggles signaling bits to indicate that it is ready to accept digits.

Dial tone can be applied to either version. As Bill said it is rare, but it is out there.

How do you test a wink start DID? Probably easiest test of all! Connect a RD or TT phone to pbx/ksu port. Pick up handset and check for battery. Dial digits that pbx/ksu expects. If it works and you get the extension you were shooting for, it's the c.o.'s fault. Got to be the easiest type of trunk to test. All bets are off if the wink-start trunks are part of a t-span connected directly to pbx/ksu without a channel bank to break it out into copper! John C.

Another problem that I have found on analog DID trunks is that they are polarity sensitive.

You could try fliping the pair and see if it works.

Also get a digit grabber and check what digits are coming from the co to make sure your set to recieve the correct digits.

Brian.