Hi. I used to have a working 1a2 telephone system. I have a bell "shoebox" ksu with power supply, and 4 line cards. I also have a melco mc-9 Combination intercom. I will post pictures of the intercom, but assuming i hook the system back up with 4 2564 telephones, how would i hook up the mc-9 ?? Thanks.

I can help you with this, but there's a lot to it. The first thing I will need to know is that brand of "shoebox" KSU you have; is it a Western Electric 551A, B, C or it is it an ITT 601A. Just in case you have trouble locating the information, here are some pointers:

551A is light gray, has a hinged cover which swings to the right and has a twist-lock power cord on the bottom right corner.

551B is very similar, but the twist-lock AC power connector is eliminated and just a plastic grommet is in the hole for the power cord to pass.

551C has a dark gray lift-off cover and very little visible wiring inside the unit. All wiring is behind the backplane.

The 601A has a white lift-off cover with an ITT logo at the bottom. All card slots are horizontal and are on the left side of the chassis.

While we are at it, check inside the phones for buzzers. If they are AT&T/Western Electric sets, chances are that they are there. If ITT or Comdial, the only way to know for sure is open up the sets and look. The buzzers should be connected to the yellow-orange or yellow-green pair, but actually any spare pair can be used.

Once we have this information, I can help you plenty with this. I will be out of town this weekend, but will be happy to help you early next week.

[This message has been edited by ev607797 (edited May 13, 2005).]

Dam ev is old

Easy there SS! I am only 43 and I started working on 1A2 when I was 14! Too bad I didn't pay attention in high school to the important stuff I would actually need to know in life!

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Ed
---------
How come there's always enough time to go back and fix it a second time?

The melco for intercom will work on the power
supply 18-to 24v dc this is a talk crkt. There is not much to it. It's called basic telephone man stuff. The thing is just a tone relay providing a contact. It dosn't matter what western elect. type unit is is

If you want to run your buzzers then use the B battery....of the power supply. A combo of the both can work on any western electric power supply, as we are working on a rt type 1900 type intercoms.... I can't wait for my next service call. Besides i can make it a 19
zone unit with paging if you like.

I just re-installed a 1A2 system in my home. The Melco C-19 or any 1A2 intercom system in fun to work with, I have mine turn off/on outside lights, access an outside line & even access the answering system. The circuitry I made is really quite basic. It's nice to hear 1A2 still exists other than my house. My concern is of course, parts. My biggest concern is finding a new interrupter if mine ever fails. But..on this forum I've learned there's still a few suppliers out there stocking 1A2 parts. Then of course there'e E-Bay. I don't have a schematic for the "Shoebox" KSU but do for another model with 6 line card slots.

contact me off board with interupter mdl. i have a bunch of old equiptment around. 1a2 even using the sanbar units were extremely hearty.

I'll try to find the model number. It's a small interrupter, I've seen larger units in the larger line KSUs. I can remeber someone making a solid state replacement interrupter. I'll let you know if I can find the model number, thanks.

Here's what I can tell you to get you started. All shoebox KSU's have power terminals in the same general vicinity on the lower right side of the 66 block. You will be using AG and AB for the "talk" battery and BG and BB for the "control" battery. The intercom unit should have terminals labeled the same way.

Where it gets tricky is the signaling. You will need to check your buzzers in the phones to determine what voltage they are (blue wires on the buzzer indicate 10 volt; red wires indicate 18 volt). Once you have figured out their voltage, figure out which pair in the line cord they are connected to (usually yellow-orange or yellow-green). Connect the yellow wire of this pair from each station to the LG terminal on the KSU block. Connect each of the orange or green wires to a separate "R0 through R9" output terminal on the intercom block. Connect a single wire from the "AUD SUP" or "SB" terminal on the intercom block to the KSU's terminal LB if using 10 volt buzzers or SB if using 18 volt buzzers.

Next, assuming you will be using line key #5 on the phones for intercom, connect the black-green pair from all stations to the T and R terminals on the intercom.

Lastly, you will need to connect the lamps. Connect the black-slate lead from all stations to terminal LG in the KSU. Connect all slate-black leads from the stations to the intercom's "L" terminal. Connect a single wire from the intercom's "LB" terminal to the KSU's "LB" terminal.

My memory is a bit rusty on the intercom's terminal designations, so if any of the ones I have mentioned isn't there, just let me know and I will assist you further.

------------------
Ed
---------
How come there's always enough time to go back and fix it a second time?

"It's nice to hear 1A2 still exists other than my house."

I just finished a short internship at KMOX (probably the biggest AM station in the country). Of course, they use 1A2 on air, as lots of stations do. But they also still use a seperate 1a2 system throughout their entire newsroom for everyday phone use.

Ahhhhh.... The good ole' days!!!

I just finished a short internship at KMOX ...

It sounds like there's still a few 1A2s out there. In fact about 20 years ago I worked at a AM/FM station (AM just a daytimer 500 watts), they had an electronic TIE system with no delay for phone calls on the air. I remember I had the opportunity to interview 2 members of the rock band Def Leppard & I took a few phone calls from listeners. One said "Wow Def Leppard..holy #&%T!". Loud & clear over the air.

Ouch...bet that cost the station. Or did it? Stations didn't usually have to worry about that sort of stuff back then. Now with Janet Jackson's superbowl show and Howard Stern and the like, I don't think you'll find a station that doesn't use a delay when taking calls.

[This message has been edited by codasco704 (edited June 04, 2005).]

Hows this for old.. KZSU-FM (Stanford Univ) has a WE 711B SxS PBX still in service, as well as a 1A2 system..
Outside plant from the studios to the transmitter, as well to to about a dozen remote sites on campus.

[This message has been edited by tantivy (edited June 16, 2005).]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by tantivy:
[b]Hows this for old.. KZSU-FM (Stanford Univ) has a WE 711B SxS PBX still in service, ....

Now that's interesting. I was wondering if there's still any step PBXs out there. Never worked on one but remember seeing what appeared to be a large round motors that I think were dial tone generators. If no registers were in use and you picked up a line you'd actually hear the dial tone rev up to it's standard tone because the motor needed to start. I'd love to see something like the 711B in a museum.

[This message has been edited by Keyset6 (edited July 07, 2005).]

Stanford, the Harvard of the west?

And I've never used a phone behind a switch that wasn't digital (i.e not elctromechanical)!

[QUOTE]Originally posted by codasco704:
[B]Ouch...bet that cost the station. Or did it? ...
It' been awhile since I've been to this message board, but actually no one got in trouble for the slip of the four letter word on the air. The other day on some TV show, wish I remember which, I saw one of those KSU-less keyets. There were four keys total, I think 2 lines and each line had an associated hold key. I haven't seen those in well over 20 years. The TV show was not an old re-run. I wonder if it was mixed in with other phone props.

An example of why I like 1A2, at least for home use is I just made a circuit that mutes the nearby page speaker when the kitchen phone goes off hook on the intercom line. It's a very basic circuit using the series line relay from a K400E line card and another relay. The reason for the circuit is I'd get feedback when paging using the speakerphone. There are of course disadvantages, behind the living room couch is an IDF!. It's just a 25pair block feeding 2 phones and jacks for on-line dial-up

I've got plenty of 66E3 blocks to help keep your 1A2 ship-shape for sale!!!!!! CHEEP.

------------------
Ed
---------
How come there's always enough time to go back and fix it a second time?

The 711B was donated to the engineering school back in the late 60's, and somehow found it's way to the station, where the station engineering department installed it, much to the annoyance of the telco (Pacific Telephone at the time).

The 711B was served directly by telco for many years, and was finally placed behind the campus PBX (NorTel SL-100) about 15 years ago, in order to take advantage of the school's bulk long distance rates, and extended local area dialing, and long distance access control and accounting.

The 711B was in service for about 15 years before Stanford installed the SL-100, before that the campus was served by Centrex, giving KZSU the distinction of being "Stanford's Oldest Independent Telephone Company"

The 711B had a few special hacks, including the ability of certain special extentions to connect to other extentions without battery present on the circuit, allowing for audio feeds to be setup thru the switch. There were bandwidth restriction due to the various transformers and coils in the circuit, but it worked.

There were about 100 extentions in service, out of 200 available. It has been downsized in the last few years to make room for a donated NorTel PBX, that has yet to be placed in service due to software issues.. I think they just removed a bunch of selectors, etc that were never used.

1890's technology, manufactured in the late 1950's, installed in the laste 1960's, and still in service in 2005. Hows that for longevity.

Currently, audio feeds on campus are patched directly on the main patchbay as dry pairs.

I've got plenty of 66E3 blocks to help keep your 1A2 ship-shape for sale!!!!!! CHEEP.

I should know this, but how is a 66E3 different than a standard 66E? I sure could have used those adaptors that provide 2 female 25 pair amphenol connectors from 1 25 pair feed. I believe theres a male connector in the middle and a female on each side.

The 711B was donated to the engineering school back in the late 60's, and somehow found it's way to the station, where the station engineering department installed it, much to the annoyance of the telco (Pacific Telephone at the time).

I think that's cool the step system is still working. That's neat how you can patch audio through the switch, although as you said the audio might not quite be 30-15khz. It was almost like those step COs had character back then, the dial tones & ringing signals varied with different offices, and even slight differences could be heard with the same "model" CO. I'd like to find history book about Central Offices & telephony development in general.

Yep..
The switch has been updated a bit over the years, for instance, there is a standalone module (teltone M-106?) that allows passcode protected access from the outside via a directly connected POTS line.

Special features include seizing ringing incoming CO lines from any phone in the system, paging, and monitoring of various audio busses, and I think it will do transfer of incoming CO lines to any extention as well..

For books, you want to look for the Bell System publications "The History of Science and Engineering in the Bell System". There is a whole series of them, now out of print, covering switching technology, transmission technology, etc..

For books, you want to look for the Bell System publications "The History of Science and Engineering in the Bell System"...

Thanks, I'll see if I can find that. One bit of history I have, on reel-reel tape is a call to information asking for the Bryant Pond Maine Post Office. The operator had me hold awhile, could hear her talking to others, then said "Dial 0 and ask for Ringdown 77". The year was 1982 and Bryant Pond was the only remaining "Cord Board" central office in the USA. I did make the call & before the Bryant Pond operator connected me she told the long distance operator "The Post Office is closed!" I think they went to a digital CO a few years later. They probably now even have DSL.

Ok. So i FINALLY went up north and now have the system in front of me. It is a 551c system wondering if anyone is still willing to help me put this together. Thanks

What is it you need to know? The lines are 3 pair each starting with the wh/bl. Buzzer leads are the yellow green, common bell is yellow slate. If memory serves the co lines are on the bottom. There will be others who can remember these things too. I've got some old manuals...somewhere!!... You'll need line cards and you'll need an intercom card, if you want intercom. I think most everything else is in the 551. You'll only have button and buzzers unless you add a dial intercom.

If you want old equipment how about the stromberg carlson that uses the 2 step relays. I still have some in use at the horse race tracks here in Maine.

Well, I still dont know how to hook up the bell for co ringing. I think i understand how to hook up the melco mc-9, to work with the buzzers in the phones.

If there is an interupter installed and you want a common bell come off the R RG lead to the yellow slate of the phone. If you only want it to ring one line, put the yellow slate of the set to the T&R of the line you want to ring. (Not the CO feed)

ok. Thanks everyone. I am a little confused. I am looking at the ksu. On the 66 punchdown, there is an a and a b side. the 5 columns are bridged to half way down. Heres what i have:
A:
t
r
a
a1
lg
l
t
r
a
a1
lg
l

t
r
a
a1
lg
l

t
r
a
a1
lg
l

Then after that there are two unbridged rows

then on the a side (2 columns)
b1
r1
b1
r1
b1
r1
b1
r1
ca
ca
ca
ca
-
-
-
-
t
r
t
r
t
r
t
r
(BOTTOM)
Note- each of the "r1"s are connected by a piece of green wire to the respective order on the "ca"s. Hopefullly i havent lost you guys yet. Now, theres the other side (b). Starting from the bottom, since there is a huge gap where the labels are blank- i have
rb
rg
bb
bb
gb
gb
ba
ga
s+-
g+-
lb
lg
mb
mg

and lb and mb are connected with a piece of blue on yellow wire.

I have 2 empty line slots. The other two have 400D ktu cards that do work. So, I am hoping everyone can give me pointers on how to hook up the phones. I am not using the amphenol connectors- I am hardwiring everything. If it all works, then I will get fancy later. Thanks EV. I figured out the melco wiring, and I am begining to understand how this all works. Believe it or not- Years ago, I actually had this thing working- but I didnt fully understand it, and the features didnt really work and nothing would ring. Thanks a lot to everyone who is helping.

1st line tr white blue to set, A1 A control leads white orange to set, LG L lamp leads white green to set. Than your second line to the set right down per color code. The bottom tr are your CO feeds, line one on down. b1 r1 are your common bell leads. (mind you this is all from a faulty memory) rb rg I'm pretty sure is where the ring generator goes. The rest are battery and ground leads, ones filtered the other isn't, the filtered is your talk battery for intercom. I believe these leads will be connected to the power supply. As far as the 400D's go slot one will be line one, so the way you have it the first two lines would be dead. Hope this helps, I think it's mostly accurate and if not I'm sure someone else will chime in.

ok. Thanks a lot. Why are those jumpers from r1 to ca ? (there are several jumpers)

Ring leads for common audible.

The R1 and B1 leads are the ringing output from the line card. For convenience, they were strapped over to pairs of "CA" clips (the green wires you described) to provide "tip/ring" connection connection for the ringer. This way, you could punch the yellow-slate (station ringer) pair down and leave it alone. Line ringing options were then handled on the "CA" (common audible) clips with jumpers for the desired lines.

To have multiple lines ring on the same phone(s), a strap is simply "daisy-chained" among the desired CA clips. It was set up this way so that you had a point to punch down the outgoing pair and still have a separate point to tie line card's ringing outputs together.

Don't forget, in order for this to work, you will need a ringing generator input, connected to terminals RG and RC. These are the bottom two clips on the right side of the block. A 551C KSU had a bracket that allowed a 118A frequency (ringing voltage) generator to hang in front of the interruper. If you don't have this, you can always use another external ring generator.

There's also a way to arrange multiple lines to ring without a ring generator off of the CO line ringing, but some special strapping is required on the KSU's block. Since you have 400D line cards, that won't be a problem. If you want to go with that, let me know and I can give you the info. It's easy.

Ok. Thanks a lot. I do have the frequency/ringing generator. I will just connect the yellow slate pair to the ca. Thanks again.

I have had a lot of success with my home 1a2 setup. Thanks to help from a member of this board all the materials I needed came together. Some phones are hardwired, some are on Amphenols. Are you using CO lines as inputs, or using pbx lines? Being kind of color blind has made this a lot more work, but I am actually numbering the pairs before I install them, then punch down, and add cables to run to the phones. Have two CO lines, and 6 lines from a home pbx, which also acts as intercom. When ringing more than one line to prevent backfeeding to all ringers connected to the other lines a diode matrix may be needed. After learning the basics I was able to help a local guy set up his too. Haven't used the buzzers yet, since most of my phones don't have them

You can ruminate all you want on how you know everything about 1A2 home systems, but I worked on older stuff than that before you were out of diapers.

I have the original Cambell Soup tin cans that I modified to use with metalicized 10 lb. fishing wire and a 1/8 inch reel to reel tape recorder for voice mail. The rotary dial pad was so old it was in Roman numerals. I bet you can't even remember the polarity on that system.

<GRIN> Bunnie

For you 1a2 fans there are 2564 sets on E-BAY
plus the ever popular 6 button wall set with the handset on top.

To top off your search is a 20 button set ,looks like a speaker phone with a headset adapter

Good hunting on memory lane

Hello 1A2 Fans! I have a question that perhaps one of you may be able to answer - actually it's sort of a puzzle......

I have an older ITT 1A2 system at my "home" (not too hard to figure it out from my screen name - and no, there is no missile). I have 4 lines on the KSU. One of them is a dedicated FAX. Someone (usually me) likes to pick up the phone and accidentally punches the line 4 button while sending/receiving FAX's because the "in use" light isn't lit when the FAX is in operation.

About 6 months ago, I saw on EBay what I remember to be an "opto-isolator" specifically designed to turn on the "in use" light when a FAX (or other non-1A2 device)is using the line. Unfortunately, I only saw this device after the auction had closed, and now the auction has been deleted. I had the part number of the device (made by ITT?????), but lost the paper on which it was written. Now I don't remember the part manufacturer or the number, and I can't find ANY references to an "opto-isolator" for a 1A2 anywhere. I would dearly love to own one of these, but they are hard to buy when you don't know what it is that you are looking for! LOL

Anyone? This is driving me crazy, especially since I DID write down the information, but lost it. UGHHHHHHHH

I don't know of anything that will give you A lead control. I did a search on google and didn't find anything for A lead control. Didn't find anything on Sandman's WEB site either. You will need something that has contacts that close when an off hook is detected to control the A lead. Maybe one of the other "older" techs can help ya.

*sigh* Yes I'm ashamed to admit it but yes I can tell you they do exist. I even have a couple of them around here. It's a "A-A1 Light Control Model TA-1" Made by TT Systems Corp; 7 Odell Plaza, Yonkers NY 10701. And yes I AM younger than EV :>)

Found it on Sandman's WEB site too. after much searching. It's a WTB-860617-40 High sensitivity relay. It's on Sandman's site here https://www.sandman.com/wizard.html#Latching%20Relay
I must not be old enough to know about these things...so too my elders. :bang:

HEY! I can still see 30's from where I'm standing! *I knew I shouldn't have answered that post* :bang:

So can I, there back there somewhere. :toast:

Yes but can you remember them? :sleep:

:nono:

I think I just found my new "best friends" guys.......LOL. Mr. MacGyver hit it on the head. Yes, the high sensitivity relay offered by Sandman would work, but it's not opto-isolated. Interestingly enough, I spoke with someone at Sandman, and they said they had "nothing" that would work on a 1A2 for A lead control......

The TA-1 is EXACLT what I want/saw. Now I need to find 6-8 of them. Mr. MacGyver, would you consider "parting" with a few, or would you know where I can get them?

You guys are GREAT!!!! Thank you so much. Perhaps I can sleep tonight (grin).

There is much I want to tell/ask regarding my 1A2 (which I obviously LOVE - for reasons I will be happy to tell those "unenlightened individuals" unfamiliar with lightenig strikes on phone lines in rural country, and the damage it can do to expensive solid state PBX's).

One of the things I have always wanted to do was put a "front gate control" on the KSU, operated by the DTMF decoder on the intercom line. Perhaps I will post a seperate quetion on this topic. I also have a need to extend the KSU to phones connected over a 1,000 foot range. I don't know how to do this. Perhaps one of you fellow 1A2 "Guru's" (you're new moniker) can tell me how to do this.

I'm SO ashamed :scratch:

I bought those from Graybar Telecom in Dallas. I don't recall how much they were but they weren't expensive. If you don't find any let me know. I have have seen at least one upstairs and there should be at least one more up there as well.

As for the DTMF decoder, you can make an interface out of a non-polorized capicator and a 1:1 audio transformer across the audio pair that will monitor the line and feed the DTMF into your DTMF activated switch. Pretty basic to interface once you have the access device.

Shhhh. Don't wake Bill from his nap

Thank you Mr. MacGyver! I will call them first thing in the morning!!!

I'm impressed - you must have one helluva memory. Crap, I can't remember what I had for breakfast, let alone WHERE I BOUGHT something a few YEARS ago - LOL.

As for the interface, that's sounds fairly straightforward. I don't physiclly have the unit with me (I am presently on a contract in Lansing, MI. - and Gawd, do I miss TEXAS!, "Home Sweet Hole-In-The-Ground"), but I think I have a Melco intercom in the KSU, and was thinking that if I could get a handset out to the front gate (900 feet), I could have visitors to the base pick up the phone and ring the intercom line, then I could enter a DTMF sequence from the set I am using to talk to them, having the Melco decode it and trip a relay to open the gate for them.

Hmmmmmm......pondering, pondering, pondering, Zzzzzzz, Zzzzzz, Zzzzzzz.

Thanks for your advice and assistance (adding names to my Christmas Card list).

OK naps over. I can tell you're ashamed your lucky I don't have feelings. All 1a2 stuff I did was pretty straight forward, no gates, doors or any of that stuff. Could just do a ring down type circuit too, don't remember which KTU is used for ring down thought. I'll bet SOMEBODY does.

The interface is a breeze. I build them in a 3 line bisquit jack. That way I have 6 screw down points and have an RJ on one end. They work very well and give good audio quality. It should talk to your device with no problems. The other great thing about building the unit this way is that you get NO differential ground problems.

Kind of like Bill, I've never ran the DTMF over a 1a2 for a gate opener (since this was all way past my time) but hey, it's all basic electronics and relays, right Bill :toast:

Yes sir, I'd just take the locking screw out of the last button and use the A leads to open it, heck with sending DTMF to a box, just something else to go wrong. See what a nice refreshing nap can do for ya. :banana:

578th:

I have about 50 Melco S64-1 A-lead detectors on the shelf from years of supporting government accounts. They are new (old stock) in box. I will gladly give you one if you pay for shipping.

These things have a T/R input (from the CO) and a T/R output (to the fax). When the fax is in use, it provides an A/A1 contact closure to light up the line button.

Like I said, it's yours for the taking. Just toss me a shipping address. :toast:

We should have known Ev would be the 1a2 man to have the final answer

AWESOME!!!!

I just got off the phone with Graybar. They found 20 of them in Tampa ($22 ea.). I ordered 8. For those that may have interest, the Graybar part # is 88272846. I ma JAZZZZED! I didn't think I would ever find them. Thank you so much.

Ev, I appreciate your generous offer. That was really nice of you. I'm not familiar with the Melco units, and I'm sure they are quality. But I really wanted opto-isolated because of the problems I've had in the past with lightening strikes. And this TA-1 is the only one I've ever seen that was built on this technology.

YIPEEEE!!!

Now, I have 2 more questions this morning for you guru's.......

1.) I want to put fuses/circuit breakers on the T/R wires coming in on each line (one fuse/breaker on each wire). What amp fuse would you suggest? Slow or fast blow? Again, trying to protect myself (line cards) from lightening. I know this won't stop a direct or very close hit, but it is better than nothing.

2.) My 1A2 is presently set up for 8 sets (and intercom for all 8). What is the physical limitation on the number of sets I can hook up to the ITT 1A2? I'm sorry, but I am not a telco guy, so please forgive me if this is a stupid question. Something tells me the magic number is 16?

I can't tell y'all how much I appreciate your advice. It's great that I have found a bunch of guys willing to share their expertise on this subject.

(smiles)

Back to Graybar and get a Porta systems line protector, if you're not going to use any ringing current get the low rated, 30volt (I think). These things are quick clamp and will protect your telephone equipment. As far as numbers of phones on a 1a, don't know as I've every heard of a limit. Biggest I ever worked on had around 60 phones and everything worked fine. Now that's been awhile back (no comments), so can't remember if they had a beefed up power supply or not, I doubt it.

Like Bill said, Porta Systems. They have a 66 block that instead of bridge clips to bridge the center conductors it uses a protection device. If one blows, just remove it and plug another one in. I use them on most everything.

The only limits on 1A2 are the fusing/power supply ratings, and of course the number of intercom dial codes. As for the protectors, don't go with something low-voltage rated because ringing current will trip them. You will need standard ones, typically rated at 235 volts. Anything lower will result in miscellaneous problems, specifically ring trip.

As for the Melco units I had mentioned, they are about the highest quality you can get, and yes, they are solid-state (opto-isolated). They are in a blue plastic wall-mount enclosure with screw terminals for the connections. Melco was a HUGE manufacturer of 1A2 intercom systems for Bell companies and probably the biggest name in service observation units. These cost a lot more than the ones you located, but if it works then go for it! Again, if you need one, just let me know and I will send it out.

Thanks Ev. I know Melco means quality. I didn't know they were opto-isolated. I'm going to cancel the order and take you up on your gracious offer. I'll send you an offline e-mail.

I can't believe the hospitality exhibited here by this forum. Thank you all.

And yes, I'm looking into the Porta Systems line protector. Sounds like an exact match for my requirement.

(smiles)

No problem. That's what we are all here for!

Dial codes?? The large systems I worked on were government and all buttons and buzzers. You couldn't talk them into dial intercom for anything. :scratch:

Did plenty of button/buzzers myself; we also did a lot of them through removal of the locking pin to make spare line buttons signal keys. That was actually my preference instead of side car buttons. A lot easier too.

Then came the Melco, Teltone and Tone Commander intercoms. How could anyone resist? The rest is history.

Wow, I thought I was the oldest geezer in this bunch, but I guess you have me beat!

Now now Ed, lets not discuss age :bow:

JustBill:

Just to make you feel better, my first house, although rented, included a full 1A2 system with a 6A (touch-tone) that I found in a wire closet. A friend of mine helped me load the 7' rack full of relays (it was equipped for 60 stations)into a van. I lived there by myself, so I only needed about ten stations (ha, ha).

I decided to strip the thing down and wire it from scratch just to see how difficult or easy it could be. Man, I will tell you one thing...... I won't do that again! Tone Commander ML-8000 wasn't too far behind that thing, and imagine the shelf space in the hall closet I gained!

Man, I sound like such a geek right now. I swear I am not, despite my high school picture.

Why is it that some people look down on 1a2? It's a pain to wire compared to later systems, but once installed it really works great! Even rotary dial isn't bad, is it really that hard to rotate a little wheel clockwise? Combined with Asterisk, this phone system is more appealing to me than the Partner system in the office that has cheap foreign made phones that seem to break very easily. If anyone knows of a phone better than 1a2 let me know, Just love those clear lighted buttons on heavy phones!

Pizza joints still ask for 1A2 to this day. We will do these installations, but it's almost impossible to obtain new phones anymore. The KSU is bulletproof, but the phones in this kind of environment get beat to death. Even a REALLY good refurbished phone has it's faults.

If we could still purchase new Western Electric 1A2 sets, we would probably be selling these systems to any food service business.

Let's face it, that's all they want, and usually all that they really need. Put a "fancy" 1A2 touch-tone phone in the manager's office and everyone is covered.

One more thought; pizza joints are usually "incoming-only", so rotary dial phones would cut down on employee's personal calls. The employees probably don't know which direction to turn the dial :dance: in this day and age! "Where's the SEND button on these phones?" Something for business owners to think about.

If anyone has any money to invest, maybe we could fire up the old Western Electric plants in New Orleans or Omaha where the good stuff was made. It would be nice to have an alternative to heavily-featured systems that customers can't understand, "just in case".

I was telling someone yesterday that back in 1984, when we started our little company out in California, I was advised by PacBel to get a "Merlin" system. I said, "Okay, how much?". They said "around $6K, give or take". I said "what are my other options?. They said, "spend more". I said "no thanks".

So I called around and found an independant telco contractor, and he told me to get a 1A2. One of the best business decisions I ever made. $1800.00 with intercom, 4 lines and 10 sets - INSTALLED. Today, I think I could sell those sets (they are all MINT) and get a good chunk of that back I think (smiles).

I still have that old 501, and all the sets. And since my new "home" is already prewired for 1A2 (thank you SAC), it's really good that I kept this system.

As I eluded earlier, lightening strikes are VERY common out in rural Texas, and happen frequently. I just can't see spending a ton of money on a solid state system, only to have it fry in the first year. At least with the 501, I can change out a line card quickly (more smiles) if this happens. Although, I am also aware that a strike close by or directly to the lines at the base will destroy the 501 too. But since the wires are buried, I can't see this happening.

In talking with you guys, and reading on the net, I've learned alot about the 1A2 in the last few days, about what it can do, and it's limitations. I really like this system.

Does anyone know if the Melco intercom(s) had a "call all stations" input? I'm thinking about replacing my relay intercom with a KT-19, and putting a station at the front gate. Visitors would puch a button (preferred), or pick up a handset (if someone hasn't ripped it off the pedestol) and "all stations" on the intercom would be buzzed, allowing any station to answer. The other alternative is to use a 401 line card, and a dedicated set. But this wouldn't allow me to answer the call unless I dedicated a button on all the other sets for just the "gate phone" - and I am already using them all (4 lines, hold and intercom). Any suggestions?

As you can see, my mind has not stopped thinking about the possibilities here (grins).

"Our's is a happy world!"

Rikki

P.S. Ed, your "package" is on it's way. Thanks again!

You could put a push button at the gate to buzz all phones. I'm sure if you can do what you're asking Ed or MacGyver will know. You could also put a button on the side of the phone to open the gate. (I know I'm stuck on this button thing)

OK so my buttons aren't the answer. I would think if you can't do an all call provide by the system you could build it with diodes.

Diodes Good R-R-R. Build lots of fun things with diodes.

As for the 1984 Version of Merlin V. 1a2, I'd say you did the right thing :banana:

Hey Ed! As for the rotary dials slowing them down, how about just putting the blank circle plates in place of the dial. I remember seeing one of those at a chicken joint back when I was about 5 years old. Even then I was trying to figure out the technical part behind it :>)

You have to strap out the dial correctly or you can't talk on it. Believe it or not the old phones the voice path when through the dial, on TT and DP. I remember having a card that gave wiring directions on removing the dial, or just disabling it.

Hehe - *I* remember a "lock" you could buy that fit in the "0" hole in the rotary dial, to keep people from dialing a number.

(laughing at the thought)

A lock? Dang. I sort of remember seeing one of those. Had no idea disabling the dial was so much trouble.

Why not just jump across the pulse contacts? You could keep the dial, and no one can call out. That is, unless they are really good with the switchhook!

True, with a rotary dial phones, you could simply place a short across the two pulse leads (blue and green, or blue and blue) to disable the dialing capability.

With touch tone phones, we would either get ones that do not have a polarity guard in the dial, or disable it. Once that was done, we would then intentionally reverse the tip and ring of the lines we didn't want them to dial out on. The polarity could then be left correct on the lines or intercom where dialing was desired.

I did this on a single line set (princess phone)that a friend of mine had put in their daughters bedroom. (grin) No more outgoing phone calls from her room. Worked great.

Princess phone with a rotary dial. 578th how old are you? :>)

It was a TT, not a rotary (smiles). But I *AM* older than Ed.........LOL.

P.S. How do you like MY graduation pic?

A red "X" in a white box? I hate to think what your third grade picture looked like!

What can I say, I was one ugly kid........

WAYYYYY too much time on my hands (grin).

1A2 fans there are 400 cards on E-BAY :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:

Hello group. I am astounded at your collective phone system, parts and wiring knowledge. I wonder if any one of you wizards could tell me where I might find a 6-way splitter box that would allow 6 1A2 phones coming off one phone line. Everything has Amphenol connectors [I imagine they're 50 pin].

My boss has asked me to find this item. I am in the dark looking for it on eBay. If someone could provide me with some more information about the amphenol 1A2 phone line splitter that I seek [or even tell me something about the terminology] I would be much olbliged.

Gracias,
Tenderfoot

Try here:
https://www.tel-part.com

Same here...I use some Valcom and Melco units for remote control off of the analog ports on my Comdial DX-80 at home.

I just installed an outside 1a2 phone. Ran 25pr underground in conduit, installed a pipe to hold up an aluminun weatherproof enclosure with a Comdial 10 button phone inside. Also added a paging horn in the tree. The 1a2 can access the doorphone directly, it's conencted to a NuTone pbx, and the other way is through Asterisk by dialing the paging extension (33). Intercom is accomplished through Asterisk as well. Even got the diodes installed on the 66 blocks for the right ringing. Most important extension is buzzer not bell. I am glad that others use this fine phone system (1A2) for home use. It's my favorite for sure!

I have a Stromberg Carlson 6 slot 1A2 key system that we were using to test 2564, 2565, 10 button and 20 button phones. We took it off the wall to add offices and put it back on the wall but now it doesn't work for the hold feature. Maybe we dropped it??? or we may not have it hooked up right??? Help we need to replace or fix it. Everthing else works fine on the unit. Please give us a quick reply

Vance

Do the line keys light up when you go off-hook on any of them?

thanks for the quick reply

yes to your question

vance

Is the interupter operating? Check for blown fuses.

I assume that all of the lines light up when you slect them? When you say that the system was taken off the wall, was anything altered with the wiring?
Lastly, do you hear the line card's relay click when the hold button is partially pressed? The only other thing that I can think to do is to disconnect any connections to the violet/green, violet/brown and violet/slate pairs that ONLY feed the 2565 sets. Do this one cable at a time and test each time you do this. It sounds as if maybe a 2565 is plugged in where a 2564 originally was.

Oh, a few more things: Do you hear the motor start running in the interrupter when you attempt to place a call on hold? Is the call actually being held with no lamp flash or does the call actually drop when placed on hold?

Sorry for so many questions but there are many things that could be causing this problem.

Check for a-lead and lamp reversals. If it is a socket plug in Interupter make sure it didn't get bumped loose.

The problem is the interrupter it seem - contacts are burnt and the motor test open. Does any one have one to sell us? The interrupter has six gold connectors that slid into the socket.

The interrupter only provides flashing lamps and interrupted local ringing. Are you sure that it's bad? The system will still keep a call on hold even if the interruper is bad. The lamp just won't wink. I have some of these interrupters if you really need one, but please verify if the call is actually held or not before we go further.

Did you ground the system?

ev607797

I would like to buy the interrupter with the motor, how much for it. Then we will go from there

It has 5 gold contacts together with one that is one space over

talk to you monday

Vance

I'm new to this forum and I'm not entirely sure what I'm doing, but I'm looking for help.

We have a 1A2 system in use for on on-air phones and I'm looking for additional music-on-hold cards for a couple of the lines. Anyone have an idea of suppliers that might be able to help?

TIA!

Welcome to the board. You might try the Buy/Sell category first and see what comes up.
Bill

Where is the Buy/Sell category located specifically on this site? Looking to buy parts for my 1A2 system.

Toward the bottom under "member forums" along with Hall of Shame and Phone Booth

There is a way to put music on hold on 1a2 without any special card. I forgot how it was done and removed my test shoebox some time ago.. I do remeber someone making a card with speed dial and toll restriction and music on hold for 1a2 but that was over 10 years ago.

Those cards were made by San/Bar Corporation. It doesn't appear that the company is around anymore.

Wasn't the MOH card a 403? I think we still have one @ work, I'll check monday. If you don't use the 403 (or whatever it is) then everyone on hold is on a BGM conference call, which usually is NOT a good thing. The card provides 6(?) isolated outputs to stop the cross chatting.
Way back when in KCMO the time-and-temp number had this little quirk. For about 5 seconds at the end, you could holler at all the other callers and if you were stubborn/stupid enough, you could carry on a packeted conversation. I never had that much time on my hands, but we all have or had friends that do or did!
John C.

John:

Yes, the K403A was PART of providing MOH on a 1A2 systems. This card was just a bank of 1:1 transformers, etc. with diodes and capacitors to provide separate isolated MOH sources for each K400E line card. The actual MOH source was hard-wired wired to this card and then it was fed out on individual pairs to each of the seven line cards it supported, and they needed to be K400E.

BUT the K403A required an unwired card slot that had each output pair wire wrapped to pins 3 and 18 or each line card slot. This IS NOT a plug-in solution! Plugging this card into a standard slot in a KSU will certainly burn up many of these transformers.

The original poster is using San/Bar 4200-200 cards, indicating that parallel-connected MOH input is acceptable. They don't have the same kind of setup at all with regard to the use of a K403A.

Memory is fuzzy but how about the 400 H card? I used the San Bars a long time ago but don't remember the -200.

Didn't they (San Bar)make a plug-in ICM?

Ken, I thought the same thing as well. I went in the warehouse and looked at 400D, E, G and H cards. Only ITT's 400E had anything physically connected to pins 3 and 18. San/Bar's cards also use pins 3 and 18 for music source input.

Using the other cards requires a completely different wiring/arrangement. Since the original poster has indicated that he's not familiar with the system, I sure don't think that an upgrade to the Western Electric wiring will be possible. We are going to need a true plug and play card in this situation for sure.

Ok - Sorry to open an old post - but I am installing a 551C - with 4 400H line cards and ring generator. I will be attaching various Western Electric phones - some dial, some push button, desk and wall - all 6 button. I am going to use all 4 CO Lines - and NO Intercom. I desire to have all 4 lines ring on each phone.

So, from what I gathered, the first 12 pairs are punched down for lines 1 thru 4. I would then Strap all 4 CA terminals and attach the Slate/Yellow (Pair 20) to the "strapped" CA pins and the Yellow/Slate to any of the B1 terminals to provide ring at each phone for any of the 4 lines. I also would attached the ring generator to the RG/RB terminals on the 551C.

Are there any other connections I am missing and am I correct on the above???

I am also in need of four A/A1 controllers to allow the use of single line devices off the 1A2 and have it trip the line light.

Any help is sure appreciated!

Ron

That sounds about right.

The A&A1 controllers might show up at Rat Shack, although it's been a long time since they carried them.

Best bet is sandman https://www.sandman.com/images/wizscale.jpg
for the Wizard's Tool Box relays.

Carl

OR, try Ed. He has all sorts of older parts and equipment! (UH, on the shelves in his stockroom, that is. ) John C. Not Garand)

There is a scan of the ITT501 KSU installation manual located at

Please provide this type information via PM or email to fellow installers.
Thanks, Bill

(careful -- all the pages are there, but not in order)
The ITT501 is a larger system, but a near-clone of the WE501 and the wire designations and the installation style is the same as the 551, so it should provide good guidance.
Also, there was a guy who sells A-lead adapters periodically on eBay for $20, listed as "A-Lead Control Unit for Western Electric 1A2 Key System". If you are installing traditional 500-style single line phones, some of them can be rearranged to provide A-lead control from the hookswitch. Depends on the model.

wow I just opened that PDF and it made my head hurt

Beware the so-called A-lead adapters that the guy on Ebay sells. They are not engineered properly, and several people have brought that to his attention. They will not work on pulse phones, as the relay is not slow-release, causing them to chatter (with the resultant lamp flickering) when the rotary phones dial.

Well then Jeff, Stay Away from the 512! John C. (Not Garand)

I can understand the desire to keep some of the manuals quiet but this switch is, conservatively, 20 years old. I don't think it's going to be considered state secrets if someone is crazy enough to look through it. That being said, if you can PM me the link I would like to see it :-) I was familiar with all of the old GTE/Automatic Electric stuff, I didn't grow up in a Bell town.

I guess I better speak to Ed - he seems to be an extream valuable resource on this system!

Thanks for the pointers

Ron

Your original question was answered correctly by Carl Navarro. Ed did have the A lead relay for the 1A2 PM him to see if he still has them. As far as djweis post, it's not the length of time, it's the policy of the board.

One point, when a thread keeps coming up with different questions on the same system it does tend to get confussing for those trying to find answers. It's better to start a new topic so others can search the board and find the answers they may need, instead of reading through a thread this size to find their answer.