Hello,

My name is Patrick. I am a physician starting a new private practiced in a building I just built. It has been designed for two separate companies to reside in the building but if my practice takes off, I may use the entire building for myself. That being said, I may branch off and start a different corporation to occupy the second half of the building that would require a separate name and phone/fax numbers. As it stands, I've 2 other employees, 2 phone lines, 1 fax line and I'm looking to install a phone system to handle calls to the office. When my practice takes off I will probably have 3-5 additional employees including one other physician in this company. I'm looking for a phone system that will work for us now, but is expandable for the future.

I contacted two local telephone installation companies who install Vodavi and Avaya phone systems. As one might expect, the company selling the Avaya phone system says I will be unhappy with a Vodavi system, and Vodavi says their system is more than suitable for my situation.

My contractor (for the building) is excellent friends with the phone company selling Vodavi and stands by their work. The company selling the Avaya system has a less favorable standing in the eyes of the contractor...either way it is my decision on what system to go with.

Here are the systems they have suggested.

Avaya
1 x Partner ACS 509 R7.0 Processor
1 x Partner Voice Messaging 2 Port 4 Mailboxes
4 x 18 Btn Display Set
1 x 4CO Surge Protector (protection for phone lines)
1x 4AC Surge Protector (protection for AC power)

Vodavi
1 x Basic STSe Gold KSU w/4 lines by 8 digital stations
4 x 24 Button Digital Speakerphone w/Display
1 x 8 Port Flash In-Skin VM Module

Are these sytems comparable in features? The warranty seems better for the Vodavi, but I'm not sure it cover lightening protection like the Avaya system. Will either system work if I divide the building and run two separate corporations with different phone numbers/fax numbers?

The cost is comparable...I'm just looking for the product that will suit my needs best...and I'm looking for some unbiased 3rd party assistance.

Any input will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks so much,
Patrick.
:confused:

Both systems are top quality as far as equipment is concerned. I won't be able to recomend one over the other however I can say this with cetainty. The actual equipment itself is only a minor percentage of the overall picture. The most important factor in the decision is the representative behind the sale.

Both are good systems with thousands in use. So I'd say go with the best company. As far as a warranty that covers lightening I don't believe that would be a manufactures warranty, so check that out pretty close. Protection on the lines and power is your best insurance against lightening and power surges.

So both systems are comparable and will do the job I want, now and in the future?

phwinmd, Also see the reply in Vodavi, I've locked that one so we don't have duplicate post running. In answer to your question, Yes.

If you are going to have 2 sep. co. using vmail, with sep. company greeting for certain lines,Avaya vmail is to small and does not expand.Have Avaya dealer offer bigger Vmail.

The Vodavi offers a bit more in flexibility with regard to the voice mail since it can handle multiple entities and up to eight simultaneous calls. You might want to invest a little extra in the Vodavi system to add a remote programming modem so that your dealer can perform programming and maintenance without the need for a service visit. It's a small price to pay since it allows programming of the phone system AND the voice mail in one unit. Be sure to ask about it.

On the other hand, Avaya has more brand name recognition due to the original Partner products being marketed under the AT&T name. The Partner is expected to remain in current production until 2010. As was already suggested, you really should explore the cost of a larger voice mail offering with the Partner if you will be operating as separate companies.

Both systems operate on platforms that date well back to the early 1990's, so it's safe to assume that they are stable investments.

I think that everyone here will agree that the key to a satisfactory installation is a strong relationship with the equipment vendor. Reputation is everything. Remember that you are entering into a long term relationship with the vendor, not the manufacturer. Be sure to check references, licensing and insurance coverage held by both parties.

This forum alone has plenty of end-user feedback regarding both of these systems. Feel free to browse the Avaya-Lucent and Vodavi Categories. Being two of the most popular products from these manufacturers, there is plenty of information to be had.

The Avaya voice mail that was quoted only offers 4 mailboxes. It will not handle the anticipated growth of your own practice let alone a 2nd entity. You will want to have the Avaya dealer upgrade his quote to include the current version of the more robust Partner Messaging which will add a decent chunk of change to the price. If you truly expect to have two operations you want to look at a system that offers "tenant services" capability. This will allow each entity to have separate "zero out" destinations and music on hold. The Vodavi brand of equipment is just fine as far as quality is concerned and if the company selling them is highly recommended and the warranty appears better then as long as the system does what you want it seems like the decision should be fairly simple. You should ask for some references from both companies - ideally you will find someone else you know and trust on their reference list.

No brainer... The Vodavi proposal is much closer to what you will need now and for future growth.

1- The Vodavi quote is for 24 button phones as opposed to 18 for the Avaya . ( You will be surprised at how fast the buttons will disappear after features, stations , and lines are programmed.

2- The Vodavi proposal is for an 8 port 64 mailbox voice mail / auto attendant as opposed to a 2 port( ? ) 4 mailbox ( ? ). Wow.

3- The Vodavi proposal is also for the "Gold Software ". This will allow you to use either 8, 24, or 30 button telephones. I don't know whether the Avaya gives you that option.

These are the main reasons at a glance that I would choose Vodavi. However, you definitely need to check their references and go with the company that will provide you with the best service. I am a Vodavi dealer so yes, I am biased. Biased or not, this appears to be a no brainer to me.

As an Avaya dealer the only major difference is the voice messaging. The little 4 mailbox/2 port VM quoted by your Avaya dealer is only capable of one menu, certainly not what you are going to need for multiple companies. There is a 12 mailbox version, but it too only supports only one menu. You are going to need the Partner Messaging R7. That supports four separate auto attendents that can handle four companies and 200 mailboxes if you needed to. I actually wouldn't worry too much about the number of ports. Surprisingly two ports are satisfactory in many instances where it isn't hammered like most small businesses. If you find that two isn't enough you can always upgrade the license card.

I would also question the dealer to see if he is actually authorized by Avaya to sell Avaya products. That can be easily done by going to the Avaya site. I would also check the Vodavi dealer but it's less likely he is not legitimate. Avaya products are available all over the net as gray market and it seems everybody and their grandmothers are selling it. The reason I question it is because the ACS R7 continues to have problems, many legitimate dealers will know enough to sell only the R6. Both the R6 and R7 are just as current, offer the same feature set but differ only in the number of lines and extensions on the one module.

-Hal

Yes, as started above I would definitely want the Partner Messaging R.7 quoted for the Avaya VM solution instead of the 4-box PC card mail, due to the fact that you are looking at running two businesses off of one system.

Another thing I would strongly recommend is REFERENCES.
Ask both companies for a reference list of customers they have installed systems for. Even ask them for the oldest customer they can supply as a reference. And the one that can supply the oldest happy customer then that is the vendor I would choose.
Because the name on the equip really doesn't mean much anymore. It's all about how you will be taking care of weeks, months and years after the install.

There are things that the Avaya supplier (I don't care if they are authorized or not) did right and wrong. I cannot comment upon the Vodavi, it has been years since I looked at that manufacturer.

As previously stated by others the VM system is inadequate, HOWEVER they did add in the protection for the AC Line and the Telephone Lines, which the Vodavi supplier did not and should have. I myself only use sine wave UPSs for surge suppression. Both vendors missed some very important items and you need to clear them up.

I myself never take advice from those who know very little on the subject, a contractor in this case. A contractor builds a building and then is rarely seen, you will have visits much more often from your communications (voice & data) suppliers. I always ask my customers to involve me in the planning process of the building or remodel not after the fact.

My recommendation is to go back to both prospects with all the input you have received here today and see what relationship(s) you can build before you buy.

A few follow-up comments. First of all, thanks to all who have contributed. I really appreciate your time and thoughtful comments.

1. I've tried to verify the Avaya dealer but the Avaya site is having trouble processing my request at the moment. That being said, this company warned me about buying "gray market" items, so I'm thinking that they are a true Avaya dealer. All of their paperwork also says that they are bonafide dealer of Avaya equipment. I'll make sure and ask about the "problems" with the R7 units, as they never mentioned that one to me. hbiss, what problems have you been having with the R7s?

2. The Vodavi VM system does come with AC line protection through a "battery back-up" that I didn't list. Although no specific surge protector, per se, is included.

3. Also, there was originally a quote for the aforementioned Vodavi modem, but the owner (not the salesperson) of the company selling Vodavi said my office is "too close" to their office to need this and they would always just stop buy to fix any potential problems. The owner also gave me his personal cell phone number and said he answers it 24 hr/day. Sounds like pretty good service I suppose, but I'll call his references in the AM to verify long-term service.

4. The Vodavi dealer does not offer "lightning protection guarantee" and says that he loses 2/4000 systems he services a year to lighning...he states that AT&T installs some protection through a "gas fuse D-Marc box" on the outside of the buliding and feels as though if that fails, my property insurance will cover that type of loss. He did offer to put in anywhere from "6 to 25 ports" of lightning protection for an additional fee, but he says he, himself wouldn't spend the money on it.

5. The owner said, given my situation he would also consider purchasing a STS 8 port VM system with unlimited mailboxes and 200 hours of recording time in case I expand to 2 companies in the coming year...but with that came a huge jump in price (~double). Is it worth that? Maybe I should just buy another system, if and when I need it instead of making this huge initial purchase? Pros/cons anyone?

6. I'm waiting to hear back from the Avaya dealer regarding the VM size.

Thanks again everyone. I'm learning so much from you pros!

If the two companies you are planning are autonomous- no common extensions and no common receptionist then it's going to be less expensive to install two smaller systems. I often recommend exactly that. I have even recommended that small companies with one or two lines could even do away with the VM and instead use what's available from the telco since they usually roll it into a package.

As for the R7, I think if you do a search of this forum on the Partner ACS R7 it will answer your questions. The R7 is an R6 that was just redesigned to add another two lines and one extension so that the one module was competive with other manufacturers one module systems. Unfortunately they made some other hardware changes that also involved the software. For some reason they never got it right and patches were released that actually caused yet other problems. Most of the known problems have been taken care of except I believe the "DND issue" where if an extension is on "do not disturb" a transfered call will go to extension 10 (receptionist) instead of the extension's mailbox. As a dealer I'm just not comfortable with the R7 and prefer to stick with the tried and true R6. I find that many trunk slammers push the R7 because they think it is the latest release and are unaware of the problems. There are legitimate dealers who will sell it also.

As for protectors on the CO lines, I always provide them unless the service is from something like a cable modem or a channel bank. It's small cost is well worth the added protection. Also, I'm not sure that your insurance would cover damage from power surges or lightning, or if it does would be cost effective to file a claim for it.

-Hal

DND on the R7 is not an issue with Partner Messaging, only with older, manufacture discontinued, VS Mail.

To answer your questions in order:

3. You still should have the modem so that anyone can assist you with remote programming and diagnostics. God forbid that something happens to this guy. I am not sure how you might be, but my customers would never be willing to wait until we can "swing by" for troubleshooting. Not to mention that there may be instances where the manufacturer may need to check something for the vendor if troubleshooting is necessary.

4. I agree with the potential vendor on this issue. The gas tube protection installed by the telco are usually is sufficient and property insurance will usually cover any damage beyond it. Although these are only required for personnel and property protection, they do a pretty good job of grooming surges. We don't include any additional surge protection devices unless absolutely mandated by the customer. It seems as if we have more problems with these devices than without.

5. There are two versions of the internal voice mail for this system. One uses flash (solid state) memory for storage and can expand to six hours of storage and 64 mailboxes. Flash memory is similar to what you see used with MP3 players and digital cameras. That's usually more than enough for a typical small business, two or even more.

There's also another version of voice mail that uses a hard drive for memory storage. Certainly, this will add a tremendous amount of capacity, but it's still limited to eight simultaneous callers (ports). I seriously doubt that you'd need something with this capacity, as it is clearly ten times+ what your actual needs will likely ever be.

Yep, never had any problems with R.7 ACS and Partner Messaging. Actually we haven't had any problems with the R.7 K's at all.