I've installed and supported Nortel key systems since DR 1.0, and I know enough to be dangerous with the BCM 400 Element Manager.

But, we all know what happened with Nortel. I received a call from an old customer that needs to upgrade from their Nortel CICS. They need more sets, voicemail, etc.

I figure this would be a good time to jump to a Nortel replacement system, like the Avaya IP Office. I understand there is a version that is all Avaya, and another that is Nortel compatable.

Should I cut the cord and just go with the Avaya IP Office? Or is it worth it to start slowly with the other? Are M7310 sets compatable with either system? How about T7316e sets?

Is Avaya similar enough to Nortel or BCM that I wouldn't have trouble making it work? Or is formal training a given?

Thanks for your input.
Jim

In the US you would use the standard IP Office with cards/modules designed for Nortel phones. Most Norstar phones (including 7310 and 7316e) are supported and work quite well. You can also have Avaya phones on the same system - connected to cards/mods that support those phones. Norstar IP phones are also supported - but are rumored to not work so well.
IP Office is a different animal as compared to MICS/CICS. Steep learning curve. To be authorized on the product formal education is required. A demo/lab system and using all of your spare time rattling around in it is also a good investment.
Good luck. Mike

Mike said most of it right there. I too came from a heavy Nortel background, but I also had a heavy background in Partner/Magic/Definity so I think I was ahead of most of the Nortel only guys. It is, and continues to be a steep learning curve, but also in my opinion the best long term option. I like IPO's Manager software much, much more than I ever liked Element Manager or NRU. With R7 and above you can re-use nortel sets so they wont have as big of a hit on system purchase. Contact Matt, Mongo5150, on this board. He was extremely helpful to us in getting on board as an Avaya BP. He can get you in contact with the right people. There are also many sources for support outside of Avaya as well such as boards like this and sites ran by some of the IPO Office experts..

There are differences with the Nortel phones working on a Nortel product and them working on the IP Office. One is Caller ID may not work until the call is picked up depending on a certain setting from the carrier. A second is if you have lines appearing on the phones and you put a line on hold it doesn't flash on the other phones. You can still pick it up though. There are differences but you will find many things you love about the IP Office.

To answer 1 specific question, the M7xxx series are supported, but I dont like them on IPO.

They didnt have an MWL tehy just put text on a screen. That feature is not supported on IPO. So the only way for users to know they have a vociemail would be voicemail/email or vociemail ringback.

I suggest a different strategy. Get them a NEW MICS (Still available). I still have half a dozen MICS R7.1's out there with customers I've had for 12-16 years. Until recently, I kept a crash kit or two, but now I am selling them on buying their own crash kits. For a customer with 75-100 phones, an extra $1000 is nothing to keep their system going another 5 years (or more). I expect to see some decent replacements for the MICS within the next few years other than the $50k-$100k systems. If you go with IP Office, I would recommend that you go all the way. New phones. I'm getting too old to try to make square pegs fit in round holes. If the Nortel M-series & T-series phones really work, that's another story; haven't tried that. Which ever you do, set yourself up to look good and have less grief.

Tip'n'Ring, I too, am getting too old for some of this. I like your idea of getting them a MICS. Or even a BCM 50. But I don't know if that would be fair to the customer.

I'm a one man show and support most of the businesses in town, so I need to be able to support what I sell. It wouldn't be fair to them if I couldn't do that. I have a day job, so the steep learning curve is going to be a problem.

Guess I'm just getting tired.
Thanks for the input guys.

Jim

Jim,

I highly encourage you to go the IP Office route. I have been around Nortel as long as I have been doing phones, but it is a dying system. Sure, you will have systems and phones for a long time on the secondary market, but you it hit right on about being fair to the customer. If you don't have the time and means to become a BP, there are plenty of BPs who would work with you to make sure your customers get taken care of.

Thats a good point Matt. One that I hadn't really thought about as most of our existing Nortel systems are running T-series. But I have been talking with a few companies that are interested in upgrading but have M-series sets. Thanks for pointing that out.

IPO is not that bad to learn as I am an old gizzer myself from the Nortel/BCM camp . I signed up with Avaya learning dot com and took couple course on line and got myself an IPO demo kit . We all got day job but I do enjoy break & fix a lot with the demo kit. My clients are moving fast in replacing pretty much all their Partner & CICS once they see that they can fastly expand and save pretty much all their M & T sets . We had couple large job with BCM450 proposal but in the end, all end up with IPO when we inform our clients of the looming date of the EOS of the BCM line . Norstar/Nortel specially CICS/MICS with its legendary durability was hard to beat but we trully feel that it is time to march on with Avaya
newer line of thinking . In all fairness, IPO release 7 is a good effort mainly for the Nortel support. Release 8 should be a bit better on SIP 12xx series set .

Jim,
This appears to be the age old question, stay the course or head a different direction. Rule 101 states do what is best for the client, then what is best for Jim, if both are the same that is a good day in our field. So one would view from the position, is the client at a technology disadvantage if they spend their money on old technology verses new. Remember the client relies and trust that you would do the right thing for them. When directing a client, I use the 5 year plan as my guide. Therefore in five years from now did you place them in a better position for their business with the CICS or the IP Office?
As for Jim, in 5yrs are you in a better position with not getting Avaya training class. If the answer is yes then stay the course if No send me your email and I will forward you the Avaya upcoming training class. Knowledge is power Francis Bacon!

Thanks for all the input, folks. All good thoughts.

I'm going to propose a BCM 50 to my customer, along with changing all of their 7310 sets out to new t7316e sets. This will give them a similar feature set, they already know how to operate the features, it will be an upgrade to their CICS, and I've had some BCM experience.

So, I think it meets the requirements: The customer will get an upgrade with a system that I can support. I can support it now, without delaying for more training, aggravation, and stress. I believe the customer will do just fine with the BCM over the next five years. They want a system with support. That's me.

There might be an IP Office in the future, but just not now. Thank you everyone.

Jim

That is a good medium choice, I have changed out many Norstar systems for the BCM in the last 30 days. The customer will receive the IP feature set and yet save money on the expense of not replacing the handsets.

I dont care either way, but, do you tell teh customer that the BCM will be discontinued in March 2012? Or not?

Just curious if they know that. It is not a bad decision, as they will be in a better position for migration, if they need, to IP Office down the road.

Sure you can get IP with BCM, but not much else. I have not done as many BCM's as I have MICS & CICS, and not as many IP Office's as BCM's, but the feature set in the IP office is much better than any BCM. I won't do a BCM anymore unless specifically requested, and only after I explain that it is discontinued in less than 6 months. An IP Office can use existing Nortel sets and also add additional Avaya and Non-Avaya SIP sets. With BCM you are stuck with phones that aren't made anymore.

I let them know about the Nortel/Avaya history, and about BCM eol. They will still get support from me after that, and from others after me. I believe they will be fine.

Jim

let me know if you need anything. I am not as well versed on IPO as some of the other guys, but I know enough about BCM and IPO to give you some feedback on differences.

Just my 2 cents here; we are currently abandoning the sale (not support) of BCMs and going IPO all the way. Toughest part is letting go of Nortel way of thinking when attacking IPO; it IS NOT a key system; if you have clients used to have lines 1-2-3-4 on their phones and don't convince them to change their ways, boy they gonna hate you!

What's long to learn is the principle of short codes; once you grasp it, there isn't much you can't do with it, although you can rely on a old hag to find the ONE feature it doesn't do and she doesn't need if she wasn't so damn stubborn.

AS for the MWI on M series, you need to configure a button as VM collect; your button will have an indicator beside it at least.

You can re-use most of the Norstar features everybody knows, with some little differences. Forget about call park though; that one is totally different.

IPO on Partner or Norstar mode is indeed disappointed for a key replacement . We bite the bullet and jumped over full blown IPO and did not regret at all . Still love the call pilot but VM pro is darn scary powerful and it is , dare to say ,fun to program it.
Automatic route fail over from PRI to POTS , phantom users ... Those are what we ask for years but never get in N* nor BCM .
Now if Avaya can give us vector programming ,I will dump all my Cisco tcl scripts and go 100 % vaya

you have vector programing..its called short codes! :toothy:

seriously, though, what do you want to do with vector programming that you can't already do on IPO?

a simple "route to xxx with coverage y (n) unconditionally" specially based on ani /ii digit
would make me very happy . VM pro is doable but very clunky where you have to drag & draw all over the place for a simple rule of routing.