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Billx #629195 04/17/19 05:22 PM
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I couldnt have said it better. Because I started in IT before telcom i was pushing for VOIP as soon as i saw the advantages. The issue was that the sales people didnt know how to market it and the old telecom people didnt know how to install it. and lets be honest, adding a couple of switches did look nicer that a bunch of new wires. We also made sure the customer was trained on the useage and capabilities of the system, this made for a whole lot of ease later. as for the punch down blocks i agree. If i see one more wiring closet with twisted wires or wire nuts, i think i might scream.

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LOL I just cleaned up a job where they beanied and UR'd all the drops in the ceiling. But, the job was pretty labor intensive. 5 drops, and the outside feed, my SMAK-4 :-) and bridge clips. Still not a fortune, but 3 hours of labor to split everything off and still keep the customer in service. Fishing each drop, one at a time, to take only one phone out of service at a time worked pretty slowly. Oh for the flash cut.

I think SIP trunking is in this customer's future because the local telco and I have a difference of opinion on who is at fault for the static and cutoff's. My last 92' is not the problem.

Anyway, VoIP seems to be the wave of the future. I like the phones (Grandstream 2160's or Yealink T-29's being my current favorites). The nicest part is that you can set up mobility extensions to ring the owner's cell phones and they act as extensions on the main switch.

I have never done a 'cloud' system, I prefer the on-premise IPPBX.

Carl


Billx #629203 04/17/19 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Billx
"Reason we are going with IP Office is because our customer base isn't tailored to the new age era of hosted or other solutions."
Really?
Any sharp, professional Telecom salesperson can shoot down digital key systems all day long.
That's because your customer may not know how VOIP can improve their business and you sure didn't tell them what they are missing.

Challenge accepted. When you have the flexibility of the IP Office that can do both full IP, or digital or a combo of both, we can offer a fully digital solution with the features of IP.

What are the reasons to go IP? To move stations around? Can do that with analog or digital on IP Office. To control a deskphone with an app or a web page, click to dial etc....IP office can do that with Analog or Digital stations.
Remote workers? I can have a digital/analog station in the office, and an App or softphone at home, off of the same IP Office.

Want the benefits of a hosted system, trunks and applications in the cloud, but still want some survivability? IP Office can do that. Hybrid cloud.

IP Office differs from the other cloud systems, as the way i would classify it would be a cloud PBX, rather than a cloud phone system. Some of the other cloud vendors can not do Bridged call appearances, coverage etc. IP office cloud or premise can.

IP Office has added a feature in 10.1 where you can use SIP trunks, and make it seem like a key system. For BOTH premise and cloud (server edition) systems. There is a current road map for the IP 500 for the next 3 years. Is it ever going away? Sure, as all things change. Does Avaya still see a market for teh premise box? It would be continuing R&D if there wasnt.....

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First of all I'll just say that the boat carrying the digital vs VOIP argument not only sailed probably 10 years ago but was lost in the Bermuda Triangle. Make no mistake- we are here but for the grace of the manufacturers. When manufacturers decided to switch to IP telephony it was because they had a plan. Manufacturers are only interested in ONE thing- making money for themselves. They didn't push their IP systems on the IT community because of their stellar credentials. The manufacturers knew that IT people were already embedded in many companies, so marketing to the management of those companies would be a lot easier if they pushed the savings by eliminating outsourcing their phone maintenance. I still can remember the complaints from IT techs when their bosses dumped their telecom work on them- "I'm a computer guy, I don't know or want to know anything about telephones!"

So in short, we got crapped on and you got crapped on and the manufacturers are doing it again. The manufacturers don't really care much what customers want either or else we would still have Avaya making the Partner system that 90% of the businesses in this country would still buy. (Yes I know Matt, you're sick of hearing that.) Many customers are not in favor of hosted for any number of valid reasons. But as we've seen, on-premises systems are being phased out.

The manufacturers giveth and the manufacturers taketh away.

-Hal


CALIFORNIA PROPOSITION 65 WARNING: Some comments made by me are known to the State of California to cause irreversible brain damage and serious mental disorders leading to confinement.
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Quote
Manufacturers are only interested in ONE thing- making money for themselves. They didn't push their IP systems on the IT community because of their stellar credentials. The manufacturers knew that IT people were already embedded in many companies, so marketing to the management of those companies would be a lot easier if they pushed the savings by eliminating outsourcing their phone maintenance.

Come on Hal - if the manufacturers weren't making money, they wouldn't be making phone systems at all. Want bigger sales? Make bigger systems. Want a bigger audience to buy your systems? Market them to more than dedicated "phone guys" who can't wrap their minds around IP telephony. Integrate the phones with the existing data network, oh, and produce Ethernet switches that pretty much program themselves to be used with your systems (Still miss Avaya ERS switches, but Extreme is doing a great job with the product). Most every IP implementation I've done, the in-house IT guys are afraid of IP Telephony, and want us to hold their hands through the process. They might become comfortable doing moves, but always come back to us to handle their programming needs.

Carriers using SIP for transport, makes sense to use IP phones and SIP trunking. Have multiple sites? Put the IPO in the cloud, it still programs the same way as on site, you just need PoE switches for the phones on premise, and it's easy for home workers.

Partner is wonderful for 2 analog lines and 5 phones for a Mom and Pop office or retail store. Magix took it as far as it could, but it really needs to go away, compared to the ease and flexibility of setting up call flows on IP Office.



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Originally Posted by Touch Tone Tommy
Manufacturers are only interested in ONE thing- making money for themselves. They didn't push their IP systems on the IT community because of their stellar credentials. The manufacturers knew that IT people were already embedded in many companies, so marketing to the management of those companies would be a lot easier if they pushed the savings by eliminating outsourcing their phone maintenance.

Actually I was addressing this comment that talked about the past:

Originally Posted by etdiego
The issue was that the sales people didn't know how to market it and the old telecom people didn't know how to install it.

IP has been around for so long by now that there aren't any of those "old telecom people" around anymore. We're all pretty comfortable with our respective products. So I think the landscape has changed.

Originally Posted by Touch Tone Tommy
Want bigger sales? Make bigger systems. Want a bigger audience to buy your systems? Market them to more than dedicated "phone guys" who can't wrap their minds around IP telephony. Integrate the phones with the existing data network, oh, and produce Ethernet switches that pretty much program themselves to be used with your systems (Still miss Avaya ERS switches, but Extreme is doing a great job with the product). Most every IP implementation I've done, the in-house IT guys are afraid of IP Telephony, and want us to hold their hands through the process. They might become comfortable doing moves, but always come back to us to handle their programming needs.

-Hal


CALIFORNIA PROPOSITION 65 WARNING: Some comments made by me are known to the State of California to cause irreversible brain damage and serious mental disorders leading to confinement.
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