atcomsystems.ca/forum Forums General General Telephone & Systems Information Magic Jack with external CID

Not sure where to post this for best exposure, but:

I'm finding that the output from a Magic Jack is not sufficient to reliably drive external caller ID displays, phones or KSU ports. They claim that it does, but it often doesn't. I've tried to contact their "technical support" about this, but that was a joke.

Somehow, I came across someone selling an in-line gadget that supposedly fixes this shortcoming. In their illustration, it looks like a typical DSL filter. I tried using a filter to see if it would do anything. When hooked up correctly, it had no effect but when hooked up backwards, I did get distorted data on the connected system.

I figured that this device must be simple since whatever it is fits inside of what appears to be no larger than a cord coupler. I tried using diodes in various directions and combinations but that didn't do anything at all.

Does anybody have an idea as to what might be needed in order for this to work? I suppose I could just part with the few bucks that the guy wants for this thing, but this is more of a curiosity question than anything.

"Does anybody have an idea as to what might be needed in order for this to work?"

Just a wag, but a tiny step-up transformer?

Jack

Ed -

I'm guessing the problem is somehow related to the output voltage or current of your USB port.

Your USB ports are supposed to supply 5V @ 500 mA, but browsing the web led me to a number of posts where people had to replace their PC power supply to get the USB voltage up to 5V.

Do you have any other USB devices plugged in? If so, first thing I'd try is removing them and seeing what happens.

If you don't have any other USB devices, or if that doesn't fix it, do you have another PC you can try it on? Maybe the MJ itself is defective.

Have you tried it on other USB ports?

Are you using the MJ with an extension cable? If so, try removing it and plugging straight into the USB port.

If none of this works, the option I'd go with is to buy an AC powered USB hub. Looks like they go for around $45. Dunno if that cost is worth it to ya or not... but if it fixes the problem, maybe $45 isn't that much. If it doesn't fix it, you can always return the hub.

I found a powered USB hub at Micro Center (dunno if they have those in your neck of the woods) for $12: USB hub

You can also get them at Best Buy, or if you can wait a few days, through Newegg.

Finally, here's a link from sandman, which has a couple links (along with some real good info) in it that might help you out:

Sandman MJ bulletin


Hope any of this helps.

I laughed when I read this:
Sound familiar, Ed?

100K ohm resistor it is! I don't know why I didn't think of Sandman. Thanks for the suggestions.

No problem ... glad I could finally help you with something for a change!

One thing - looking through the forum link sandman provided ( MJ Forum ), it looks like the 100K resistor fix is only for CID problems (although I didn't look through all 25 or so pages in the thread).

Your post seemed to indicate you were having other problems as well... just out of curiosity, could you let me know if the 100K trick fixes all the issues you were having (just in case some day I decide to jump on the MJ bandwagon and try to hook the thing to my 1A2)?

Thanks -
Matt

Well after a stop at Radio Shack and $1.04 of hard-earned cash, it now works flawlessly. I can't believe the fix was so simple. Thanks again for the suggestion, Matt.

I'm still amazed at the fact that the MJ is so sensitive that a 100,000 ohm load would even be detected across tip and ring.

Wonderful!

Thanks for the update Ed, I can't really take credit for it though, I saw the 100K post w/respect to CID, but wasen't sure that would fix all the problems. Twas you who found it and fixed it.

But knowing this, I have an older PC that I might just dedicate to a MJ (so I don't have to deal with the pop ups) ... then I'll have 3 working lines on my 1A2 system. Of course I don't _need_ 3 lines, but that's way beside the point.....

Oh - one other thing, if you should be so inclined - a guy at work deals with micro electronics, so I can get you a 100K resistor you can mount inside the MJ, so's ya get something like this:



Lemme know, I'm guessing you won't want to do it as what you have is working fine, but just in case, the offer stands.

Thanks -
Matt

Well, not so fast. It worked great for about five calls, then I got garbage in the name field and it stopped completely. It turns out that the resistor got blown.

I replaced the resistor and it started working again for now. At five for a buck, I can afford to experiment a few more times.

As for the popups, I just dragged the management box down to the bottom and it stays in the tray. I have mine running on my home junkyard computer with everything else and the MJ doesn't interfere a bit.

I have found that my old Procomm Plus software kills the MJ when I use it though. Once I've used that program, I have to go and restart the MJ. I'm sure it has to do with the fact that Procomm seems to think it owns all of the computer's ports and IRQs, thus causing a conflict. I'm going to avoid using Procomm for a while to see if that truly is the problem.

I did like the idea of the thin clients that one of the guys on the MJ forum is selling. Take a look at the 19th page of the last link you provided and you'll see a link to his e-bay listing for them.

As for the micro-resistor, thanks but no thanks. At this point, I'm just trying to determine the ins and outs of the MJ. I seem to be getting quite a few requests to add them to existing systems and I want to learn now instead of through the school of hard knocks.

Ed what wattage resistor do you have? I can send you a higher wattage to try if you want it.

Look at getting a watt resistor next time. Looks like it might be sending more current then the rated resistor can handle.

OK Ed, gotcha.

I concur with the others... but I'd of never guessed you'd blow a resistor. Since you got them at RS, I'm guessing you got 1/4 watt resistors, and at 100K ohms.... well, just... wow.

I'm a bit concerned that putting in a higher wattage resistor will fix your resistor blowing problem, but might cause a "insert component name here" burning up problem.

Might be worth a post out in the resistor thread on the MJ forum to see if that's happened to anyone else. I just browsed it again, and people were putting in 1/2 watt resistors, as well as 1/4 watt, all the way down to whatever wattage the resistor in the picture above is.

Maybe even an email to sandman is in order; his bulletin stated he went through a fairly high number of the gizmos doing his testing.

One other thing - did it blow while hooked to an SLT or to your KSU? I'd be curious to know what the current draw is for each of them.

In the meantime, if you decide you want to go the higher wattage route, you can put 2 of the 1/4 watts in parallel and you'll have 1/2 watt - I'm sure you knew that.... but just in case.

While you're enjoying all that, I'll have a look at the thin client you pointed out.

- Matt

The resistors I purchased are 1/2 watt. I guess I may have just had a bad one, so I'll have to let this replacement one sit for a while to see if that is the case.

I just have it connected to a CO port of my Panasonic KX-TD system at home. The resistor is just bridged across the line on a 66 block.

Sounds like a plan. For even more fun, you might see if the resistor warms up both when the MJ is idle and in use.

I guess it could be a bad resistor, as I'm sure they come from China, and are prolly made out of lead and recalled sheetrock.

Might as well stick a straight piece of wire in!
Rt= 1 /R1 + R2 A good rule of thumb in figuring resistance in parallel is the total resistance will be less than the least!!

oops

Sorry, my bad. Thanks for the heads up... and for saving Ed's MJ!

RT = R1 X R2 / R1 + R2 = 100,000 X 100,000 / 100,000 + 100,000 = 10,000,000,000 / 200,000 = 50,000. Much more than a straight wire! And actually easy to figure out in this case, since any time you parallel identical resistances, the result is attained by dividing the original individual resistance of 1 resistor by the total number of resistors. 100,000 / 2 = 50,000. BUT, the circuit will still be wattage limited by the LOWEST wattage resistor! If you paralleled 4 100,000 ohm resistors, the net resistance would be 25,000 ohms. If the resistor wattages were 1/4, 1/2, 1, and 2, the 1/4 watt resistor would be the limiting factor. So, the circuit could dissipate 1 Watt total, 1/4 watt for each of the 4 resistors.

SMT resistors are in the 1/10th watt range and below. Going up in wattage is like going up in current rating in a fuse, it will just let the smoke out of the next weakest link! If you are burning a 1/2 watt resistor up in that short period of time then something is drawing way too much current. Sounds to me that if it (MJ) was working fine and started to develop problems, then a 100k ohm resistor fixes the issue then something is slowly going bad in the MJ and the 100k ohm resistor is compensating for the degradation of the failing component.

It also sounds like due to the postings of this problem on the MJ forum then its probably a design oversight where a part was used too close to its max operating specs and is now failing and/or its so close to its max rating that some work fine and some need a lil help via 100k ohm resistor.

After checking my MJ on-hook voltage (51.5 VDC), I calculated the current thru a 100.000 ohm resistor and then calculated the wattage at .02575 watt. That is way less than 1/4 watt, like about a factor of 10 smaller. Even assuming a ring voltage of 100 VAC added 'on top' rather than 'meshed' like it should be, that is still less than 1/4 watt! Somebody check my numbers, PLEASE. That HAD to be a defective resistor! (Or a defective mathematician! )

OK, my math says 100volts and 100Kohm gives 1/10 watt, so telsetrepair's note about SMT's ratings probably takes them out of the picture.

Given that Power varies with the square of the Voltage, halving 100volts to 50volts yields 1 quarter of the power or the 0.025watts that you calculated.

If they (MJ) did add the 100volt (ring) on top of the 50volt (battery), I calculate 0.225 watts which is getting a bit too close to 1/4 watt for my taste, but it should still take extended ringing to cause any damage.

Volts = Sq.Root of Power x Resistance

So for a 100K resistor to exceed .5 watts the voltage would have to be over 200 volts. You either had a bad resistor or the wrong resistance. For a 100K ohm the strips should be Brown, Black, Yellow

So Ed, how many resistors do you have left?

Matt, I'm delighted that you asked. I've been wanting to report my outcome here for quite a while anyway. It turned out that I really DID have a bad resistor! After installing the second one across the pins on a 66 block, it has worked flawlessly for over a week.

Call me crazy, but I almost have myself believing that the resistor improved the overall performance of the MJ. The sound quality is near-perfect and it truly does do what they say it does. You certainly cannot beat the price. Here's some more feedback about my experience:

1. Do not try to skimp on the computer used to host the MJ. I had to upgrade to 1 gig of RAM, but I was already planning on doing that. I had 256K before and performance was marginal, but that wasn't the Magic Jack's fault. In the MJ Underworld, the die-hards are using thin clients to support their Magic Jacks, which puts it more in-line with Vonage or similar products.

2. This thing is the size of a book of matches, so don't expect it to ring more than a couple of phones or a system port. I'm already impressed with the fact that they crammed as much as they did into such a tiny package.

3. MJ uses a lot of USB power. Don't use it on a computer that you are especially fond of. While I can't say for sure, I'm fairly confident that mine was responsible for cooking all three USB ports on my laptop. If using a laptop, by all means invest in an externally-powered USB hub. Mine is on an old Dell 2400 and the port layout is such that I keep it in the back.

4. Don't believe everything you hear in the "Unofficial Magic Jack" support site. There are a lot of people there with a lot of combined knowledge, but I found myself making some critical mistakes. This was largely due to the fact that much of what is discussed is via the "let's try this" train of thought. It isn't until you get five pages deep in a thread that you find something that you did based upon page one screwed you. In my case, I permanently lost my soft phone screen, although I didn't really think I had any use for it. Now I'm finding that there are some features there that I'll no longer be able to access.

5. There are some neat third-party applications available that make the MJ even more versatile. Things like seven-digit local dialing, *69 automatic call return, modification to fixed voice mail parameters, etc. are available from one place for the cost of a few packs of resistors.

6. Don't plan on using rotary dial equipment with the MJ. Also, if your equipment requires loop supervision, you'll need to come up with another plan. It doesn't support either of these. The same thing applies to analog data (fax, modem, etc.) transmission.

7. I haven't confirmed this, but I've heard that they automatically renew your subscription annually without approval. For $19.95 a year, I don't see this as being much of an issue, but it might be to some.

8. Although they say that you get unlimited local and long distance calling, I've heard that it will cut off any call promptly at the two-hour mark. Again, that isn't a problem to me, but it might be to someone else.

9. In the two years since I purchased mine, they have introduced literally thousands of new area code/exchange choices. Once I realized that my home's area had a local exchange, I switched my MJ's number. They will let you do this for free ONE time and it occurs instantly. After that, there's a small fee.

10. Local number portability is not available and might not ever be. It has been "coming soon" for the two years I've had mine. You do not get a directory listing either, Caller ID is number ONLY and you cannot block your number for outgoing calls.

History Of My Experience With Magic Jack

When it first came out, I heard about it here at Tech Talk. I couldn't resist the temptation to get my hands on a real "gadget", so I ordered one. This was before you could buy them at 7-11. I tinkered with it for a while, but eventually lost interest in it. Quite frankly, it didn't work very well except when calling other MJ customers for me.

It wasn't until my wife had the brilliant idea to "cut the cord" with Verizon that I found myself with a renewed interest in my Magic Jack. She was convinced that we didn't need to pay for land lines anymore, but she didn't think about my being a telephone man. I eventually reconnected my Verizon service, but only retained one of my lines.

Once I figured out the ins and outs of the MJ, I gave it my seal of approval and connected it to my system at home in place of my former second line. I arranged LCR/ARS on my system so that it routes all toll calls via the MJ line and leaves the Verizon line alone for local calls. I did go one step further and arranged for local calls to use the MJ in the event that my Verizon line is busy. In doing this, I had to have my system insert area code 540 for all of our 7-digit local calls (Verizon doesn't require 10-digits here for local calls yet). With that being said, we just dial 9 + for all calls and the phone system does the thinking for us.

My home's network wiring is literally CAT zero, meaning that I'm using spare pairs in DIW four-pair cable. My Internet access is via Comcast cable, which is about as dependable as a two-dollar wristwatch. I've made no effort to run CAT5, worry about QoS or any network-related issues. Still, even with these obstacles, I've been very impressed with what the Magic Jack has to offer.

Based upon my experience, I'm no longer inclined to advise against the use of these things. I wanted to learn as much as I could because I've been getting calls from customers about using them. I didn't want to give a canned "NO" answer without checking for myself. Despite it's handful of shortcomings, I can say with certainty that it is the best $19.95 I've ever spent. If you have been on the fence about buying one, my vote is that you should go for it. It really isn't too good to be true and it really IS plug and play. I hope that my observations have helped others here to learn more about this.

There has obviously been a lot of discussion about the Magic Jack here before. Please don't let my experience push you off of the fence. I just wanted to share my experience and rationale for backing the product.

Thanks Ed! Very informative review.... I'm moving forward with getting one.

Great post Ed I may try it again some day but I didn't have much luck with mine after about 6 months it started to cut calls off after just a short while into call and I got sick of the pop up screen all the time.

Great post Ed. Thanks!

I still think of Magic Jack as some kind of novelty. I may be tempted once some Linux capability arises.

Just another player promoting a decline of quality IMHO

Good details to know, I got a customer who spends $200+ on each of her two lines because she calls China for business a lot. I told her about Magic Jack and she almost peed in her pants. I told her it wasn't perfect but for her it's definitely worth a try.

Gonna put it on her Panasonic tda50, and reading your post makes me think ARS would be a nice feature for her.

Whoa there, 94ASTRO. I don't believe there any advantage to calling INTO China. I don't think M/J has a pop there. Remember, there has to be a way to get off the internet and onto POTS lines. UNLESS she sends a M/J with a local phone number to someone in China, that has a broadband connection. Something tells me that China will NOT take kindly to M/J. For both monetary AND political reasons!

Magic Jack cannot call into a pots line in China? I thought you can call anywhere.

Their infomercials say the U.S. & Canada only. But the way to call overseas would be to send a magic jack to that user. Its the issue of having a gateway to the public switched network that is the limitation. There's really no "Magic" involved.

Hmmm, do I here an echo?

One of the constraints of Magic Jack is that calls must be two hours or less.

Now I hate to reveal that Ed and I are a bunch of gossipy hens, but we were cut off at two hours + two or three seconds in a recent conversation. Can you believe that I actually had to ring him again to finish my thought?

I'm still evaluating Magic Jack, but it seems like a quality product so far. I will say that Ed's voice got choppy when he was downloading "emails with large attachments" (read: porn). Either that, or he was getting all choked up chatting with me.

Unless one has "an ear" for compression artifacts and such, I don't see many users complaining about the call quality.

I was thinking of giving it a try. So I went to their WEB site and searched for and checked the FAQ's to see how you cancel service if you're not satisfied. They don't tell you. That's like signing a contract you can't get out of. If there is a way to cancel service they don't make it easy to find. No thanks.

Bill it will cancel itself after one year. I hadn't used mine for a few months and when I went to use it they had canceled it. Just don't give them a CC to automatically renew with. When I tried it I was lucky to get 2 minutes without being cut off.

Thanks for the info. I just thought it was a little deceiving there was nothing about canceling on their WEB site. Guess I could get one from Wally World so I didn't have to give out a CC.

you can cancel within 30 days here

I bought it with a CC and they didn't auto bill it canceled after a year , I left it off for a few weeks and then renewed

Thanks skip I knew about the 30 day free trial, although they don't say how you get out of it, other than sending it back. I was more worried more about the automatic renewal.