atcomsystems.ca/forum Forums VOIP Phones & IP PBX VoIP & Cloud Phones, Hosted PBX, General IP Phones Hosted VoIP PBX Services

I've read all of this through twice and I think if you had lead off your initial post with "Hay guys, I'm jumping into hosted VOIP and here's how it is going for me" the responses would have been different. It is almost like you had the answers to your questions before you asked them. I would like to know more about it because the CLECs are starting to show up with this stuff in my area. The only hosted system I have been up against so far cost $5100.00 for the customer premiss equipment. The vendor also priced out an Avaya ACS for $5,100.00 as well so that's my only experience with this (8 phones and voice mail). Many of us have been the first ones out the door with leading edge stuff and have learned the hard way to let someone else go out the door first next time. Maybe you can keep us all up to speed on this as you progress. I assume you are only selling hosted systems now.

I have a stupid stupid question bbarnes...if you already know all the answers why are you asking the questions? Is this some new adverstisement technique? I have YET to see an all IP system outperform a hybrid. The backend costs are the meat and potatoes of all the IP systems today. Think about this...all of Cisco's first generation IP systems are dumpster food now. Not only that but how are the systems they have today going to supply power over ethernet on a gig network...thats right chaching$$$$....or when the IP structure changes in the next few years. chaching...$$$$


[This message has been edited by Coral Tech (edited June 23, 2005).]

[This message has been edited by Coral Tech (edited June 23, 2005).]

Very good question. Yes we have partnered with Straitshot to deliver QoS to the phones. Their network was built for voip. I have only seen a hadnfull of providers that can guarentee QoS with thier offering.

Thanks for asking.



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www.itel-ip.com

VoIP, with Features Galore

All sentiment aside I'll give you a more detailed list of why I don't see hosted as good option:
1) you mentioned that PBX calls for multiple components in order to provide all the features. You are correct that this is often the case but I see this as a good thing. Consolidated hardware means consolidated failure. If my voicemail dies remember that the customer is still running fine with the PBX. If your Router, data switch or ISP connection dies what do you have.
2) How many simultaneous line/BLF appearences can you do with Polycom? Maybe 8 at most. We can do 24 on a comdial EP100-24. If you have GUI appearence on a PC app that's bad becuase you need your computer monitor to run other apps while your on the phone. If you have GUI appearence on the phone that's bad becuase you probably can't see all the appearences on the same menu level. Point is--you can't see what's going on at a glance.
3)Can you do hands free intercom between phones. This is a basic need & I haven't seen any hosted services that can do it.
4) Most places you can't get ISP services that impliment QOS. That's why I say it's better to process in house traffic locally & only use public ISP services where it's necessary. If you order dedicated point to point then you've just lost your cost saving with VOIP hosting.
5) Can you do whisper page? Another basic feature.
6) Hosted services will require more bandwith than none hosted. This is an ongoing expense that will eventaully eat up any saving on the install.

I could go on about what I see as negatives.

You gave your feature set all of which I can do with most any PBX plus the following. Take note that this is the Comdial MP5000 basic feature set.

Abandon Hold Release
Access Denied All Revisions
Account Codes with Positive Verifications
Account Code Button
All-Call Paging
All Intercom Links Busy Indication
Analog Terminal Inerface (ATI-X)
Area Paging Interface
Assist Button
Automatic Call-Back
Automatic Dialing
Automatic Hold for Intercom
Automatic Hold-Line to Intercom
Automatic Hold-Line to Line
Automatic Pause Insertion
Automatic Privacy
Automatic Redial (Of Busy All Revisions Number or Unanswered Call)
Auxiliary Equipment Interface
Auxiliary Station Ringer Interface
Background Music
Basic Key Service (1A2) Emulation
Battery Back-Up
Battery Back-Up Interface
Block Programming
Call Announce with Handsfree Answerback
Call Costing and Station
Message Detail Accounting Reports
Call Forwarding On
Call Forwarding - Personal
Call Park
Call Pick-Up - Directed
Call Pick-Up - Group
Call Transfer - Screened
Call Transfer - Unscreened
Call Waiting Tone
Calling Station Identification On BLF
Cassette Tape Up/Download Of COS Data
Centrex/CO Compatible
Class Of Service Programming
Class Of Service Printout
Common Audible Ringer Interface
Conferencing - Add-On
Conferencing - Multiline
Conferencing - Unsupervised
Data Security
Dedicated Intercom For Attendant
Default Functional Program
Default Toll Restriction
Delayed Ringing
Designated Programmable Buttons
Dial "0" for System Attendant
Directed Dept. Calling With
Dept. Call Distribution (DCD)
Direct Inward Station Dial (DISD)
Direct Station Call Hold
Direct Station Selection With
Busy Lamp Field (DSS/BLF)
Distinctive Ringing
Do Not Disturb
Do Not Disturb Inhibit
Do Not Disturb Override
Doorbox Monitor Support
Dual Intercom
Dynamic Line Keys
End-To-End Signaling On ITCN
End-To-End Signaling On Lines
Exclusive Hold All Revisions
Exclusive Hold System-Wide
ExEcumail Integration
Excecutive/Attendant Override
Extended Dual Tone Multiple
Frequency (DTMF)
External Paging Interface
Feature Inhibit All Revisions
Flexible Ringing Assignments
Flexible Ringing Assignments OF PA Port
Flexible Station & Line Class Of Service Control
Flexible Station Numbering Plan
Full Button Progammability Of Features
Handsfree Answer Inhibit All Revisions
"I Hold" & "I Use" Indications
Idle Line Preference
Intercom Hunt Group
Intercom Line Timeout
Last Number Redial
LCD Messaging
LCD Support
Line Access Restriction
Line Answer From Any Station (Night Mode)
Line Groups
Line Pre-selection
Line & Line Group Queuing
Manual Hold
Meet-Me Answer Page
Memory Retention Without Batteries
Message Waiting
Modular Wiring & Jacks 4
Conductor Wire System
Music Interface
Music-On-Hold
Music-On-Hold System-Wide
Mute
Night Transfer (Of Ringing)
Night Transfer Of Ringing Button
Off-Hook Voice Announce
(OHVA) With Handsfree Answerback
On-Hook Dialing
OPX Support
Originating Denied
PA Port Timeout
PBX Compatible
Personalized Ringing Tone
Pooled Line Access
Power Failure Transfer
Power "On" Indication
Prime Line Automatic
Privacy - Designated Button
Privacy Release
Private Lines
Programmable Buttons
Programmable Password
Pulse/Tone Switchable
Remote Programming & Admin.
Response Messaging
Ringing Line Preference
Saved Number Redial
Secure Off-Hook Voice
Announce (SOHVA) With Response Messaging
Secure Off-Hook Voice Announce (SOHVA) Groups
Secure Off-Hook Voice Announce (SOHVA) Originate Button
Self Diagnostics
Service Observing
Service Observe Blocking
Speakerphone Support
Square/Non-Square Config.
Station By Station Privacy
Station Messaging Detail Accounting (SMDA)
Station Messaging Detail Recording (SMDR)
Station Monitoring With DSS Call Pickup
Station Speed Dial
Subdued Ringing
System Speed Dial
System Reset
Tandem Attendant
Tap (Flash)/Recall
Tenant Service
Timed Hold Recall
Toll Restriction (0 and 1)
Toll Restriction (Flexible)
Toll Restriction (Night Mode)
Tone Or Voice Signaling (ITCM)
Transfer/Conference Button
Unanswered Call Transfer Recall Timing
Voice Announce Blocking
Voicemail Transfer On Busy
Zone Paging (Via Station Spkr)
Service Observe Block
SOHVA Button
SOHVA Groups
Account Code
DISD
Programmable/Administrator and Installer Passwords
Voicemail Transfer on Busy
System Reset from VDT COS
Allow SLPS phone support on Express Systems
P.A. Port timeout (system wide programmable for 5 seconds or never)
Added Zonal Call Costing Feat.
Added Night Mode Key

My question(s)were what are the advantages and how many have you seen. Again, I was just trying to get the opinion of some industry veterans. Indeed I do know of some of the advantages we have cost wise, I just didnt know what you guys would say as an argument vs TDM and how many were actually out there.

Actually your points were some of the more valid posted. I just wish you didnt have to be so harsh about it. I could go back and forth on your but I dont think thats a good idea for me. My mear 6 posts dont carry much merit compared to your moderatorship.

My gut feeling is that some on this board may actully think this may be a viable option but mabey dont want to say so because of what others may think of them. I could be wrong, but thats just what I feel.

Thnaks to all for hearing me out.

I'll be sticking around and lurking if anyone doesnt mind...

Thanks,

bbarnes

I'm here to learn & I'm sure you're welcom to stick around & do the same. I try to stay on top of all technologies such as hosted PBX so that I'm prepared if the market changes. I have nothing against it--it's just that I can't see any reason to recommend this to my customer. I will admit that after digging into the service you're looking at that it comes closer to being acceptable than anything I've seen thus far. However nowhere near good enough to justify replacing a PBX with it. It may work for a small co with 3-4 employees.

[This message has been edited by aweaver (edited June 23, 2005).]

bbarnes. No one is trying to run you off. All sides are welcome. We customer premise equipment guys are opinionated but can usually back up our statements with real world applications and have seen too many issues with the hosted side. I personally don't think VOIP to the desktop is mature. It is surely capable of being a nightmare when the enduser changes items on the network and effectively destroy QOS. We use VOIP for tying remote locations together. Works fine lasts a long time. We use them for telecommuters. Again works well. Remember most are not pushing TDM over VOIP. THe general feeling is that hybrid is the safest and most economical way today. When I ask people why they want VOIP they say so I can move my own phones without calling you. I say price a VOIP solution and I price mine with a new fangled piece of technology called a PATCH PANEL and they are amazed that they don't have to pay through the nose just to move their own sets.

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Business Phone Systems

Thanks guys.

aweaver, just so you know we can do handsfree intercom. That was one of the first things I asked.

As far as your other features I'm sure we do can most but not all and vise versa. Points well taken though. I appreciate you admiting that our service is closer to any others you have seen. I'll take that as a compliment. Seriously.

RATHER BE FISHING
I agree with you on the hybrid stuff. That was actually how I started to get into this whole thing. I went looking for a hybrid solution that could support 3 party SIP so people could have "throw away IP phones" like shools in the gymnasium, warehouses etc. The only thing those people knew about voip was no Moves Ads Changes fees and using your phone at home.

When I ran into what I found (Interactive Intelligence) I saw a box I could sell into any environment (existing PBX or not) and it would just act as an application box (UM, IVR, ACD, VoIP, etc) or it could stand on its own. The only problem was price (which was what I was aiming for in the first place!). Thats why I decided to look at the hosted model. The rest is history.

As far everyone else. Thanks again for all your comments (both positive and negative) and I will be keeping everyone in the loop as we plow ahead.

Anyone is free to e-mail me anytime if they want to say hi.

Thanks again.

-bbarnes

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www.itel-ip.com

VoIP, with Features Galore

[This message has been edited by bbarnes (edited June 23, 2005).]

All I want to know is if you deside not to get the "Dial Tone Feather" when you pic up the handset will there be an operator to connect you to Andy or Aunt Bee.

What you may not realize is that most of us have dealt with a "hosted" solution for many years already - it's called Centrex, and we hate it. There is too much complication and wasted time involved when you have to place orders just to have some button programming or ringing assignments changed, not to mention the hassle (and cost) of adding phones. Sure, it saves money for a small office (less than 6 or 8 phones) but it will never run as smoothly as a Key System.

This is just my $.02, but I think it may explain where some of this "agression" (agravation?) is coming from.